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captain_beefheart

leaf death

16 posts in this topic

My plants are suffering from the symptoms shown in the pictures. These begin in thelower fan leaves but quickly affect all the fan leaves. The leaves get rust spots. Then the spots enlarge, the edges dry up and eventually the leaf dries up and dies.

 

The plants always get this after the second week of flowering. Until then they are perfectly healthy.

 

The are vegged in fluro tents then moved to CMH lamp tents for the flowering. 

Pots - 15 litres

medium - Canna terra pro (not plus)

feeds - 2ml canna flores, 1ml canna npk per liter of water 

water - rain water (EC 0.2)

ph - 6.5 (after feeds added)

feed solution EC 0.8

Tent temperature 22-26C

humidity 55-65%

 

runoff EC 2.5

runoff PH 5.4

 

plants - Soud dosidos, honey cream, gorilla zkitlez

 

note: I did experiment with regular tap water - that brings the ph up to 1.2. No improvement

I have also tried on other plants to cut out the feed so as to try and bring the EC run off down (it has been up 3.5EC) to the same level as the feed solution. But after two weeks of no food the plants were not improving (probably starving) and the EC run off was still 2.5

 

pictures to follow as soon as I am able...

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Can you take the plants out of the pots and show a picture of the roots?

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46 minutes ago, mrrichiet said:

Can you take the plants out of the pots and show a picture of the roots?

 

 

In a few hours time I think so yes.

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large.IMG_9741.JPGlarge.IMG_9740.JPGlarge.IMG_9739.JPGlarge.IMG_9738.JPGlarge.IMG_9737.JPG

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The roots should be healthy. They are at a good temperature. They are not over watered (pot dries out between waters). They get rhizotonic during veg period. They also get Great White mycorrhizae

Past grows have had decent roots. I do feel that there is not as muh roots as I would like and they ofcourse gather around the edges in the plastic pots but over all they seem healthy enough. I am trying out aero pots now too. And the problem persists whether its a plant in an aero pot or a regular deep square shaped pot.

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Looks to me like starts off hungry which leaves (pun not intended) it vulnerable to fungus. 

The fact that it starts after a certain period points to deficiency ... perhaps phosphorous , but I have not experienced that myself.   

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I used to get the same issues never mind what I did. I finally switched from Plant Magic soil to Wilma and haven't had any problems whatsoever since then. That tells me my environment was fine but something was happening down below. My eventual conclusion (apart from PM being too acidic) was that each time I must have let the roots dry out once, just enough for them to pull away from the sides. I swear I always followed a decent wet\dry cycle but it must be something like this because no other factors could have been at play (I'd tried a variety of nutrients but usually used BioBizz). Now I just use Canna A&B. Maybe it was something vague like occasionally too cold water for watering? Anyway, suffice to say, I never found out but the issues seem like yours and the problem was definitely something at the rootzone. 

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Thanks mrrichiet. It is kind of comforting to know that I am not the only one that gets this problem. I have been feeling cursed :/

 

here are the root pics - to me very healthy and white

 

large.IMG_9745.JPGlarge.IMG_9743.JPGlarge.IMG_9742.JPG

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The soil does begin to peel away from the pots sides between watering. But some plants are in aero pots and they dont have that issue. 

 

I have considered that the canna terra soil is not good. But for now I am still working through other variables before I decide whether to change soil or not. 

 

Flowering takes place in two different tents, two different sets of CMH lamps (Gavitas and Dimlux), two different rooms, yet the problem is idential in both spaces.

 

For a while I also considered temp. Yes I let a previous grow get too cold over winter. The roots were at 17C. But with this batch and the previous batch the temp has been 24-26C with the same issue.

 

 

 

 

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The roots don't look too bad, kind of like mine used too. It's a bit hard to tell with the light in your pics though, the 3rd one I'm not sure they're looking white enough? They don't look that bad in the 2nd pic. I'd also expect to a little more vigour in them too, it almost looks like they've stopped growing (they still grow in flower, albeit slower than when in veg). Where is the new rootage with tiny white hairs? I'm not an expert and I never sussed out my issues so it'll be interesting to see if anyone else comments on the roots. I'm wondering if it's maybe the wet\dry cycle and the entire rootzone isn't getting soaked through as your soil does seem fairly dry so I could imagine there are bits where water doesn't hit and other bits that are waterlogged. Honestly, I'm just guessing now, I'm still flummoxed! 

 

E2A: Looking at the dead leaves again, I'm starting to wonder if maybe it's a little too cold down at the rootzone. Might be interesting to stick a temp probe in the soil.

Edited by mrrichiet

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Ok... I will put the probe in the soil tomorrow morning and monitor what the temp is. But I am pretty sure it will be at least 20C. We'll see.

 

The root colour is white. They are quite dry right now but the top layer is wet still. I water once a day. about 2.5litres per plant. That seems sufficient. At least they have no signs of under or over watering.

 

 

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Having read a few other topics last night - I have also begun to add cal mag to the feed. That seems to be a solution proposed by a few members on other threads. The last time I gave them calmag was when they first went into flower 4 weeks ago. 

 

My second grow room is two weeks into flower. The rust spots are just beginning to show. So I've also given them some cal mag too.

 

regarding soil humidity: I notice that the top surface is very damp but the bottom of the plant is bone dry. Perhaps I am not giving enough water at a given time and the little I give is too frequent?

 

I wonder mrrichiet whether you experimented with calmag / epson during your own trials?

Edited by captain_beefheart

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I am having similar problems and just started giving them calmag too. Your pic look like the leaves have some tip burn, possibly over fed them causing lockout. 

2.5l of water a day seems a lot to me. 

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4 hours ago, Cornishforest said:

I am having similar problems and just started giving them calmag too. Your pic look like the leaves have some tip burn, possibly over fed them causing lockout. 

2.5l of water a day seems a lot to me. 

 

Cant see where 2.5 ltrs per day comes into it ? there would be serious overwatering issues . 

The dilution of nutrient would not imo cause lock out but more likely make them hungry at that stage in their growth. Calmag can cause lockout issues if not required and this does not look like calcium or magnesium deficiency from the photos supplied. 

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18 hours ago, captain_beefheart said:

The root colour is white. They are quite dry right now but the top layer is wet still. I water once a day. about 2.5litres per plant. That seems sufficient. At least they have no signs of under or over watering.

 

 

He says 2.5l a plant every day with 3ml of nutes per litre 

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