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~nobody~

BHO - Fresh or dry trim?

17 posts in this topic

It needs drying 100% bone dry if your going to do a butane run, sorry to disagree nobody but thats a major point. I NEEDS to be BONE DRY.

How so? I'm sure I've heard people say that the best is made from fresh frozen trim. :unsure:

e2a Or at the very least that it makes very little difference. I think one was found to give slightly higher yield and the other slightly higher quality. Can't remember which way round it was now though, I just know that I filed it away as 'ah, great so I can make some bho on chop night' and I've done so on the last few chops.

Edited by ~nobody~
to more accurately represent my unsureness.

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It needs drying 100% bone dry if your going to do a butane run, sorry to disagree nobody but thats a major point. I NEEDS to be BONE DRY.

How so? I'm sure I've heard people say that the best is made from fresh frozen trim. :unsure:

e2a Or at the very least that it makes very little difference. I think one was found to give slightly higher yield and the other slightly higher quality. Can't remember which way round it was now though, I just know that I filed it away as 'ah, great so I can make some bho on chop night' and I've done so on the last few chops.

I think your getting mixed up with bubble hash maybe, frozen trim with butane extraction, that's a new one to me.

With bubble runs I've found dry trim give a greater yield with no loss in quality, there is a difference in final product, the fresh being a softer bubble and the dry being hard.

Edited by 2hi2try

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frozen trim with butane extraction, that's a new one to me.

Well it definitely works. When you say it needs to be bone dry, what do you mean? ie what'll happen if it's not?

I think your getting mixed up with bubble hash maybe

could well be :unsure: but it certainly works just fine, at least with the cafetiere method.

Edited by ~nobody~

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frozen trim with butane extraction, that's a new one to me.

Well it definitely works. When you say it needs to be bone dry, what do you mean? ie what'll happen if it's not?

Water will get into your final product as butane is slightly soluble in water, I'm sure graywolf dries his on a low heat in the oven to ensure dryness and the guy seems to know his stuff.

I'm just trying to get the best info on here as we're way behind the states with solvent extraction.

Edited by 2hi2try

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Water will get into your final product as butane is slightly soluble in water, I'm sure graywolf dries his on a low heat in the oven to ensure dryness and the guy seems to know his stuff.

I get you. It does seem to smoke just fine but I'm not averse to doing a comparison on my next run, should be sometime in the next few weeks.

I'm just trying to get the best info on here as we're way behind the states with solvent extraction.

Commendable and I totally agree :yep:

Only thing I would like to ask is that ime the fresh frozen stuff gave a lighter coloured oil (which looks like I expected it to look from seeing people like grobag's and your results) whereas my dried stuff always turned out quite dark. Any idea why this might be then if it's not just the fact that it's dry?

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I'm just trying to get the best info on here

Not disagreeing just pondering through the issue of wet/dry trim for oil....Why would the butane extract water? Butane is hydrophobic so it won't extract any water directly unlike maybe ISO which will mix with water, I can understand it for ISO although I am sure I have heard of people using wet trim for that as well.... so is it the freezing process that releases water from the plant cells through ruptures induced in the freezing? Will that effect the end product though, the Cannabis goodies will be in solution in the butane.... not saying this is sensible but in an effort to explore what is correct and what is not I have read that some people boil off the butane by pouring it directly into warm water and skimming the oil off the surface once the butane has gone :unsure:

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Water will get into your final product as butane is slightly soluble in water, I'm sure graywolf dries his on a low heat in the oven to ensure dryness and the guy seems to know his stuff.

I get you. It does seem to smoke just fine but I'm not averse to doing a comparison on my next run, should be sometime in the next few weeks.

I'm just trying to get the best info on here as we're way behind the states with solvent extraction.

Commendable and I totally agree :yep:

Only thing I would like to ask is that ime the fresh frozen stuff gave a lighter coloured oil (which looks like I expected it to look from seeing people like grobag's and your results) whereas my dried stuff always turned out quite dark. Any idea why this might be then if it's not just the fact that it's dry?

I'm working on that myself, I've just odderd an O'Kief as I've been soaking it so far. We've been discussing what make oil dark ourselves the last few days and we've not quite got to the bottom of it yet, although it could be a number of factors.

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I'm just trying to get the best info on here

Not disagreeing just pondering through the issue of wet/dry trim for oil....Why would the butane extract water? Butane is hydrophobic so it won't extract any water directly unlike maybe ISO which will mix with water, I can understand it for ISO although I am sure I have heard of people using wet trim for that as well.... so is it the freezing process that releases water from the plant cells through ruptures induced in the freezing? Will that effect the end product though, the Cannabis goodies will be in solution in the butane.... not saying this is sensible but in an effort to explore what is correct and what is not I have read that some people boil off the butane by pouring it directly into warm water and skimming the oil off the surface once the butane has gone :unsure:

I'm going from the txt graywolf wrote, he said hexane and water will not mix but butane and water will, to a small degree. Total lack of scientific terminology I'm afraid, I'll try and hunt down the text.

Hexane and butane are both non polar simple alkanes with two carbons four hydrogen atoms difference. Butane is still slightly water soluble, where hexane is completely insoluble in water, so it is easier to get a pristine extraction with hexane, but it is much more difficult to purge and tastes like gasoline above 30ppm.

from here http://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=285568&st=0

post 13

Edited by 2hi2try

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Just found the quote I think you mean were graywolf says that butane is slightly water soluble and hexane is completely insoluble.... didn't know that but apparently it's true but only at very low concentrations of less than 0.01%... either way butane being slightly soluble in water is not the same thing as water being slightly soluble in butane

ETA thanks for the link, found it earlier but I am a slow poster

Edited by distracted

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Plant Material

This is the most important factor if you wish to achieve high quality honey oil, Good fresh dried uncrushed bud makes the best honey oil, and you should easily achieve clear oil using uncrushed buds. Grind them up and do a second extraction to get a lower grade ?B? wash, not as tasty or clear like the first batch.

From

ht tp://tokecity.com/forums/showthread.php4?t=25685

Edited by distracted
broke live link as not allowed

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I have tried both, fresh trim does seem to collect more water than dry, I agree you get a clearer colour oil with fresh but it seemed less potent somehow.

I would always dry it after trying both methods.

B.

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The only difference between wet & dry trim when making BHO is yield.

You'll get much more from dry trim, with no loss of quality.

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Just found the quote I think you mean were graywolf says that butane is slightly water soluble and hexane is completely insoluble.... didn't know that but apparently it's true but only at very low concentrations of less than 0.01%... either way butane being slightly soluble in water is not the same thing as water being slightly soluble in butane

ETA thanks for the link, found it earlier but I am a slow poster

The key to the conflict is in the word taste. Some water solubles add flavors beyond other terpenes and the hashy taste of cannabis, that many find enjoyable.

I also don't use bone dry material, because it is too brittle and frangible, producing fines which adds filtration issues and in the process of making it bone dry, the flavorful and salubrious lighter monoterpenes and sesquiterpenes are significantly reduced.

Butane is slightly water soluble,but it still makes a damn tasty extraction out of fresh frozen material. It is my hands down favorite in fact, and was the favorite of the test panel, because of all the retained lighter terpenes. The most often used phrase to describe it, was "Fresh!"

The next best tasting BHO extraction is using material that has been dried around 5/7 days, but even that is actually less flavorful than a well done QWET, because of the additional floral content of the QWET from using a polar solvent.

The trick with processing fresh material, is to keep the plant material and the butane below about -32C/0F. At that temperature the resins dissolve relatively slow, so soaking them in a chilled thermos for 30 minutes or so, will work better than a simple flow through column.

Hands down the master at that process is Jump, whom I notice is on this forum. Perhaps he will share his absolute amber in 15 minutes process that he has developed and dialed in?

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The trick with processing fresh material, is to keep the plant material and the butane below about -32C/0F. At that temperature the resins dissolve relatively slow, so soaking them in a chilled thermos for 30 minutes or so, will work better than a simple flow through column.

Interesting. I always thought the experts were dead against any soaking at all.

The key to the conflict is in the word taste. Some water solubles add flavors beyond other terpenes and the hashy taste of cannabis, that many find enjoyable.

Butane is slightly water soluble,but it still makes a damn tasty extraction out of fresh frozen material. It is my hands down favorite in fact, and was the favorite of the test panel, because of all the retained lighter terpenes. The most often used phrase to describe it, was "Fresh!"

I think that must be what I recall reading somewhere that led me to make my 'bho on chop night's a go' conclusion.

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In my very limited experience you get more quantity if using bone dry material.

But i prefer the BHO coming from fresh material. A little less but more tasty and with a slightly different high.

Just my opinion based on my experience :stoned:

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