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Comparative Grow 3 vs 1 Zkittle Yield. By Automaster

The comparative fem grow =

Can one zkittle, out yield three zkittles, under identical lighting ???


The theory that the less plants you have under one light, the more you will yield ?? For a while now, to fill all available light niches, under my 189 photon led array. Each a single light, emitting 567w of LED light, inc IR UV.


I have allways put 3 plants under it, and trained them to fill the whole light pocket, projected by the "(90 degree, X3)" lenses. So a roughly one meter canopy is formed by, and under the LED full spectrum light array.


That 3 plant set up, under one LED, identical light, usually gives between 84 and 140g per plant, have had 160g in the past from a super bean. So if i gave one plant, the whole light to itself, and in an airpot, would it beat the 3 zkittles under the same light, and nute & watering regime ??


We are going to find out !!, the variables are mainly genetic, but the 3 selected zkittles, and the one in the air pot, are all roughly the same in size and very similar in size, by the time i switched to 12/12......... a few days back !! i vegged them for 40 days and not my usual 35 days, as the nodes did not begin to stagger untill day 40 of veg, allways a sign to switch 12/12 etc......


being the 3 are next to the one zkittle, the 3 are starting to nick a bit of light from the one zkittle in the airpot next door !! other than that, all is very similar............. which should give a fair 3;1 comparison !!  The 3 zkittles are in 15ltr pots aquavalve pots, with capillary matt wickes, same as the airpot with4no capillary matt wickes, trailing in the run off water below the plant. ........... so the plant can suck up all the run off, as well as the watering to runoff !!


Here are the identical specs for both plant set ups;


Both in gold label special mix, nothing added.

Both got 4no wickes under each pot

Both on gold label A&B nutes during veg  Ec 0.65

Both on genesis micronutrient & bloom & Pk 13/14 nutes,  Ec 0.65 upto  final Ec 1.05 during flowering

Both on identical Ph of feeds at both stages, 6.3 veg 6.8 flower

Both on room temps max 32, low is 23c.......... RH is 355 at mo

both will be RO flushed for 10 days

Both will run for 100 days............. (Xmas Blunt / vape Kit) cure ends 19th December !! (Close One) !!


Here they are, day 47 overall, 9 days 12/12, so 38 day veg..........


zkittle single AIRPOT



the single has had some LST treatment, pulling out all the side bows to the light, you can just see the light brown rubber coated flexi wire, hooked into the side of the airpot holes !!.............. i get 18-19ltrs of gold label grow medium into the airpot....... not to bad for 1.5 months of growth from first wetting the zkittle beans.....


The triple plant set zkittles 3no under one light



You can see the single zkittle in the bottom left hand corner of the above picture,......... how different that is, compared to the triple plant canopy forming right next door !! a marked difference........... the triple canopy is about 25% larger at the mo, but that means nothing at this stage........


if they come out even weights 3;1.......... comparative, or even if the single is just 15% less than the 3no comparativley, then for the last 5yrs, i will have wasted nutes on 2 plants under each light, and the nutes, lecky and water to boot !! on 3 under, when 1 under would give me 85% of 3no !!!!


We shall see in 60-70 days time.............. thx for dropping in guy's / galls.............. AM




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Just to clear up, what happens at 12/12 photo change, it causes phyllotaxis, which is when the leaves and nodes begin to stagger, due to the rise of the flowering hormone ethylene, ie;


In botany, botanic culture, phyllotaxis or phyllotaxy is the arrangement of leaves on a cannabis plant stem, that changes when photoperiod is shortened =

(from Ancient Greek phýllon "leaf" and táxis "arrangement").

The staggering of bract nodes = taxonomic internode phyllotaxis !..................


In the picture above, (Bottom Picture) in the centre, you can clearly see the phyllotaxy commencing in the Lemon Zkittle (Cream Crop) !!...AM

Edited by AutoMaster
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Day 59 / 21 Update; The triple ZK vs The Single ZK.  And the 573rd update in this lounge........


This will be the 3rd week of photo period shortening to 12 light, 12 dark. For the lemon zkittles.......... 3wks into flowering right now.

They are now on the gen nute micronutrient & bloom nutrient 20ml of each in 25ltrs, = 20ltrs of rainwater filtered to 20mc + 5ltrs of high CaCo3 tap water, to buffer the zero Ec rainwater to an Ec of 0.25 - 0.29Ms/sc/TDS/Ec, Electro conductivity ratio to pure water.


The nute pack, made up of, 20mls of genesis micronutrient, + 25mls bloom nutrient. Into 25 ltrs feed reservoir. Nute combined Ec is 0.78, + CaCo3 tap water (Rainwater buffer, 5ltrs), = Ec 0.29. Total Ec = Ec 1.07. The Ph is 6.5, after 45ml of nute is added to the res. So no Ph down required......... feed temperature is 23c, pot temp (Soil) is 25c...........


I am not adding Pk, flower booster, at the moment, as flowers are still building with good deal of nitrogen, usually at the switch, is when the soil & or medium. Will change Ph, due to flower triggering. The Ph begins to rise, in favor of alkalinity. And drinking slows a tad, the increase in dampness, and a consequent "Drop" in Ph, to acidic, in combination, can trigger P & K deficiency.  This condition, we now know, ir accelerated by "Low Co2" availability. Low Co2 can sometimes be seen, by a white looking dust under neath where one leaf sweats ontop of another etc......


So at 3wks, 21 days into flower, post 12/12,  after the phylotaxis period, not a sign of P or K deff in the "Older Lower Leaves".... brown necrosis at leaf tips, bordering yellowing areas..... due to acidic soil, which is to wet and cold......... see the narrowing at Ph6 below, (Charts), of both P & K at acidic Ph'es, narrowing off, which "Reduces" the nutrient availability, resulting in a deficiency. At Ph 5.5, "quite Acidic"... 50% of P & K & Phos availability is restricted, or 50% locked out. Phosphorus at Ph6 is 70% locked out due to soil acidity......... wet & cold soils.....

Acidic range below;



By keeping the soil temperature above 21c.....but not more than 26c... 24/7hrs a day......... not an easy temperature to "Maintain" at floor level.... you can keep the acidity in the soil to a minimum......... and prevent the classic canner growers "Buzz Woed" Cal/Mag Deff's..... from cropping up !!


3wks in Flower the single ZK in 18ltrs of gold label special mix, in the "AirPot".......... but on 4no 30mm wide run off wicks. Allowing the plant to avoid sitting in water, wilst being able to sip from the "Wicks" the 0.5Ltrs to 1.5ltrs of run off, caught in round tray below.  The tray sits on a 4 weel plant trolly, so i can rotate the plant under the light, every watering, every other day 3-4ltrs to run off.




There is over 25 hazel sized bud site on this zkittle......... fattening up on even NPK every other feed, is A&B gold label, higher in Nitrogen.......... compared to genesis final NPK...........





Around 40-50 bud sites on this triple plant canopy, the 3 have the same light over them as the single zkittle in the airpot etc...... photon 189  567w of full spectrum light power, 40,000 lux +, include "IR" & "UVa+b, 320nm" and high blue at 400nm + blue at 450nm.... also near red at 750nm, moving to 550nm at the other end of the flowering yellow red orange spectrum, 750 to 550nm diodes 3w.


Not bad sized nuggets at just 3wks into flower on the GL A&B & Gen Micronutrient + Bloom nutrient combi. The Gold label soil A&B will be dropped in favor of all gen nute and adding in canna Pk 13/14 around wk5 of 12/12 flowering........ i have allready spread two table spoons of palm tree ash, under each bush. This improves alkalinity, and slow feeds PK........... added one week before 12/12 to allow break down into soil.


I donated some PK to some of my winter solstice buddy's...... i went along and took this picture, you can just see stone hengew in the background....... moon stoners party........ spine chilling !, the Zkittle that is, on a chilly, late, winter solstice night !!


man can still only dream of leaving this planet !!


next ZK challenge update, wk6 of flower, the harvest is timed to be fresh out of cure on the 19th Dec. some xmas moon smokes !! AM



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Ukin brill, i had a right good extended chuckle, and giggly laugh, at that last post...!!!!!!  giggle giggle on the ZK !!!!!!!!!  stunning picture though yea, planet moon !!......... nice.... AM              Ps; still giggling though ;)........... AM


That moons looks killer, a bit like Kepler 425b, Earth 2.0 it is confirmed, "1400" light years from our bio orb.

Kepler 425b 1400 light years from earth. Speed of light in a vacuum, is faster than in thick gas, such as air.. @vacuum speed of light =

299,792,458 Mps; "Meters" per second (2.99792458 x 10 8 m/s). Wow...... kepler, is "E2.0" >>


kepler E2.0 earth 2.0, 20% larger than earth, only 50% water to land ratio, not 70%,

it's own sun same as ours, but 20% larger.........


i would send this man, a true "Bio Pioneer" into deep space, to land it for England !! with the kestrel, which he woulfd defo need for company ! he looks readyt for it right now........ 50k in debt !!

would send him, defo,  to plant this flag, on kepler 425b E2.0, with a pack of zkittle beans in his pocket !!


and on the way he, (The Bio Pioneer), would see, a few of these, eye watering (nebula), up close;........ a price worth paying for..



I think Branson is building the wrong intergalactic toy, what about a ticket to Kepler Richard ??......

im defo in, on the way to getting double Eu fuced ere Richard !! AM

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UPDATE; Day 69 overall, and 31 days in flower. The ZK comparative grow;


The Zkittle, certainly is showing her champion inheritance. As the selected best fem sativa, allrounder, of 2018. The single ZK is pushing on with a lot of prime bud sites, after bows where pulled down, tied down sideways into the light niches, side bow LST. A single topping at day 23 of veg, to the main ZK centre colas, single topping or pinch out, of the central colas. Accordingly, has re distributed the energy nicely round the plant under LST in the 18ltr airpot under a single light, all to it's self etc.


The triple set of ZK under one light however, is pushing on even more, as the three plants under one light pops buds into every light available position. And is taking great advantage at the moment in doing so........ i think the triple has regained ground, and is at least 35% more bud sites than the large single ZK............... the amount of water lost through the sides of the airpot, is phenomenal.......... 4.5 to 6 ltrs every day is poured into the single ZK, where as in the 15ltr standard non side vented pots in the triple set. uses 3.5 to 4.5ltrs every other day to run off. ie, i have to water the air pot every day to keep sensible hydration on the single airpot ZK........


Nute only Ec is genesis  50%/50% bloom and micronutrient, 50mm 50/50, in 25ltr res, is running at Ec0.85, in 20 ltrs of filtered rainwater added to buffer = 5ltrs of tap water, 25ltr res in total, gives a buffer Ec of 0.25, and a total buffer plus total nute @0.85. Gives a total feed Ec of 0.25 + 0.85  final feed Ec1.1........... Zero, thats no mobile nute deficiency's of any kind have showed up, during the switch to flower from veg.......... Ph of Ec1.1 feed is Ph6.6@23c. Due to the extended veg period, a shorter flowering period can be expected, as the plant is programmed for 100 days to it's end or stop code !!


That means 8wks of flower rather than 10wks..... so at wk4 of flower day 31, i have 2.5wks of nute to feed before the 10 day flush, then harvest, then the 4 to 5 days air dry, and 10 day cure, brings the date to 20th December !!......... phew that will be a close one !!........ but will be a very nice pure flushed high terp fresh one for xmas day !............ ZK with the "Norfolk Black" 2,5kg turkey.........


here are the comparatives of Zkittle  1no vs 3no


Zk single plant in airpot side to side is just under a meter canopy width   (Top Shot)



ZK single side shotlarge.5bf3f9b8ccfa4_d6931zkcomp2.JPG

ZK triple side shot............. she is defo holding a stack more, making every effort to fill every spare light niche available, using every photon emitted down to the full canopy of buds, these 3 ZK's where also single topped, as un topped they can exceed 1.2m from pot top. i like to keep em at around a meter from pot top etc......... better energy distribution, powers up the side satellites 100% better......... a single topping of main colas in general, delivers at least 25% more larger, and abundant flowers.

ZK triple set under one light...... canopy just over a meter in width, shown below;


i am not sure the flash on my digi camera is synchronized properly !!...soz for poor pics..... not great pics with the flash at lights out etc....... but you can see the size, and potential yield difference, at the moment. Even with 2x more grow media and 2 times more the amount of nutrient and water used on the triple set,............. still worth it for the 35% minimum additional number of buds under "One Light"... not bad at all......   i recon 6 zips yield minimum, off of the 3 ZK set. And 3.5 to 4.5 zips of the single ZK fem, in larger 18ltr airpot............. bottom left of the pic above is a bud from the single ZK got in the triple ZK photo limelight !!


next update will be at end of nute and start of flush 2 to 2.5 wks from now,.....  4th December or before......... thx for dropping in AM

Edited by AutoMaster
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Update;  Day 96  overall, Day 55 flower.   27 days since last update;


Currently;  They are on day 10 of the pure RO flush,  Buffered rainwater was used for this whole grow.

Final Ec nute only Ec0.9. Final nute feed Ph 6.8.  Canna PK 13/14 was used the last 4wks of flower at Ec0.3.


It has been a trouble free grow out, i was hoping to get 4no identical phenotypes, within the 7no Zkittles i germed for the selection of the 3 & 1 comparison.......... Of the 4no finally selected, to go forward to the grow off comparison. two number, turned out the reverse pheno type. by that i mean, the plant to look at, similar to it's parents , the las vegas lemon skunk, a pheno of that, or its parents has come though.  This pheno is sativa dom, as is shown by the long strings of buds on the longer flower stems......... these higher sativa's take a few more wks usually to get to ready ripeness.


Consequently, i have only stopped feeding those two alternate ZK phenotypes, a couple of days ago........ long after starting the flush on the normal ZK pheno's............. to throw a spanner into the works, further, and is just my luck. The one ZK i chose to go into the "Single" pot, the air pot grow out........... which was the one to compare to the three.............. it came out, the las vegas pheno also.............


So it cannot be compared to the 3no ZK's..........under the one light, as in the comparison of yield i was going to do ...the 3 to 1 yield comparative..... as convention dictates, that yields from the pure string type flower, from this type of sativa, are usually low in yield. So 2 out of the 4no developed the reverse phenotype, by the time they had fully matured.  The one in the single air pot, and one of the 3 ZK's under one light, also developed the reverse phenotype.......


Here are the pics;   single ZK + the 3 ZK's........ Plus  a trio of Power Plant, done at the same time........


Lemon Zkittle  "Single"   18ltr airpot    FULLY SUGARED UP AT DAY 93....... JUST 55 DAYS IN FLOWER.






Lemon Zkittle  "Three" number, under one light. Front right, the flip-side pheno...........the other two, the normal ZK pheno......



The Power Plant............. allways a massive yeilder................ zero trouble, allway's fruity, nice easy to trim. allway's a bonus.... great plant............. looking hevier than the ZK it has to be said !!!   PP fem >>


just loading up the last of the crystals !!!!  these are very dense buds................ and heavy !!   one of my all time favorites PP



will post the 3 & 1 yield weights anyway ok................. just to see what the mixed phenos did deliver in the end.......... thx for dropping in................. i am running some auto's next, haven't done them for quite a while........... the think different is what made me go for the auto's this time.............. as it was very special on the terps the last time i run it................ greater than 4yrs ago...........


i am doing the daiquiri lime and desfran also, as well as the think diff, all are high terpene value.............for the next run...............the other half is picking up the gold label special mix 150ltr as we speak !!................ i am off for a night queen vape at 2.5;1 ratio !!!.............. vaping bypasses the spleen and liver....... so the full medi affect is obtained, direct into the plasma via the alveoli in the lungs, compared to oral ingestion, 40% less effective than vaping THc&CBD..........


Ps; since vaping my full melt extract, my appetite, and feeling of well being, alertness, taste & smell capability, has rocketed, plus a deep tissue detox seems to be in motion !!....... THc dilates tissue you see !!..... vaping is a health boon 100% can vouch for that, in only 2wks into pure vaping so far, i should of been here years ago..........better late than never though what !!........AM

Edited by AutoMaster
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Great read, how the hell do you know so much man, are you a botanist? I feel like I've finished school everytime I read a post, hahaha. Always learning when I read your stuff, great! 

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On 17/12/2018 at 4:57 PM, TheGreenShabeenReturns said:

Great read, how the hell do you know so much man, are you a botanist?


pretty much man................ i am bachelor of science also !!, that helps a great deal, i was born with a photo memory though, but i did wonder myself, so in 1996 just before i set of for the degree, i did the mensa check, it came back 153, 90 is average........... my photo memory, payed dividends, as 97 candidates started the particular degree in science, due to it's severity, only 8 pre grads made it to Winchester cathedral finish line, in "99" to collect one of the hardest degree's in the country, it was that hard to obtain........... 




The idea of a comparative grow came about due to a friend grower (Teehee), he has large yields from using 20ltr airpots, on auto's. I use 15ltr tall non air pots, a standard tall 15ltr plastic pots on fems. So i wanted to see if my 3 standard pots could out yield one large air pot, each under the same identical light "Photon 189 LED" 567w of light each. 3no 15ltr fems vs 1no air pot fem under same light.


As it is all about how much yield we can get from one chosen light. In addition though, if the yeilds where not to far away from each other. That would mean i was wasting nute, water, effort and soil and all......... on three plants. When i could use one plant to get 80% of the yield of three...............  saving lecky, nutes, soil, effort, water and the rest of the inputs combined !! here is how it turned out.


Initially i thought i had a bit of bad luck, as the ZK single plant, turned out to be the reverse pheno type, that would take a bit longer to ripen comparatively to the three.........


In the three ZK group, one also turned out the reverse pheno, flickering the possible comparison further. The remaining two ZK's in the three group where all the expected pheno type. The air pot drank 3 times the water of the 3 in standard closed sided pots of 15ltrs capacity. And drank the usuall amount, which was very efficient use of water it turns out. as the iar pot looses a lot, quite a bit, through evaporation via the numerous holes round the air pot itself. And the larger surfaces area at the top of the pot etc.


The 15ltr pots used 2.5ltrs to 3 ltrs every 2 days, the air pot 3 ltrs every day !!.......... and that is not to run off watering either !! only every other watering with the air pot was to run off below.......



The wet weights are shown below, but take into account one of the three ZK's, was reverse pheno and a little bit smaller than the other two, in the set of three in 15ltr pots. And that the single ZK was a reverse pheno in the air pot !!!


SINGLE ZK WET WEIGHT = 598g x 72% loss of water during drying to 62%RH = 177g = 6.3 zip

TRIPLE ZK WET WEIGHT = 885g x 72% loss of water during drying to 62%RH = 247g = 8.8 zip


So one plant, 177g in 20ltr air pot, yields 70% of the three plants, 8.8 zips, in standard 15ltr tall pots. So the single is much more efficient, and the single air pot plant, much larger than any of the three individually. but the single dose "Not" yield as much as the three under identical grow circumstances and conditions.


The single yield was wey over half of that of the three, showing the loss of yield through the more cramped conditions of the three plant canopy, struggling to fill all light niches. while the single glows in the light of it's own dedicated light. the air pot plant grew much stronger in trunk diameter, as did the bow sizes......... due to the air pot effect on the biology of the plant...... was greater than expected from the air pot......... an eye opener for single plant growers, look and learn, via figures of yield above !!


So 8 zips from the three zk's........... was expected, x 3 gives me 24 zips, the usual !!.......... however the 6 zip single was also a very nice outcome. the single air pot zk plant was LST'ed via the bows as pics below, which increased the yield also. So it is true, that 3 plants under one light will yield more than one, single large one !!...... so three are more efficient than one by yield, but not by input !!


here are the single ZK pics to show the increased size of the plant grown in high oxygen environment.......... with all the water it needs.  the single ZK reverse pheno pics; She is well loaded with trichs at day 96 odd........... at end of pure RO flush ZK single


you can see the LST wires on the bows, to let light in......... the bows are very heavy in diameter, and strong.... holding up a wet zip each at least !!  30mm main trunk at soil level....


as you see here, the ZK single was topped at the center colas day 21 of veg......... the three where also topped out centre colas only, the diameter of the bows relative to the main stem !!!...... strong arm tactics to hold up the half kilo total, of wet flowers on the plant !! couple of bows removed so you can see the number and size of bows in the air pot ZK.........


proved that, if you have room for three, you will yield more, with the extra cost and input, but one will give you 60%+ of three, if you only have room for one........... if i had put the three in 15ltr air pots !!........... i suspect the yield would have been more from the thre, due to better oxygenation of the plant in it's entirety !!............


  However, the water used would have been three fold in the three then, inc nute etc................... draw your own conclusions from the comparative grow........... but it was interesting to see the additional performance from the air pot and it's greed for stacks of water every day................. it beat each of the individuals, in the group of three by a long chalk !! Those each where 82g dry each, compared to the single at  177g......... so roughly 100g more from the single air pot grow, "Comparatively" !!       Automaster


Ps;;;;; my next grow is with auto's................. the "New" DesFran Auto 100% sativa,, + sativa dom Daiquiri lime & the legendary "Think Different", also a sat dom. The TD !!......... which i have not done in 4yrs............... but is a must try in the vape pen, due to the most fervent terp count on the planet !!! and was outstanding the last time, allrounder.


Best of the new year to all, appy growing lads for 2019........just hope thing pic up for entrepreneurs after this brexit shit is sorted...... as this economy atm is dead standing.


Thank god for thc demand !! that has rocketed, since the "CBD" media route...... not even the worst depression since the "1930's" depression, has effected that demand !!!   AM


Edited by AutoMaster
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On 17/12/2018 at 4:57 PM, TheGreenShabeenReturns said:

Always learning when I read your stuff, great!


cheers greenshabeen............ your welcome to learn and grow your knowledge here, yea the lemon zkittles was a right treat, the first vape out of the cure was, using the MCT C8 oil, so 2g of BHO crystal in 5ml of MCT C8 oil, in the microwave for "7" seconds @800w = full terp value................. means it has jostled in to 2nd place below the no1 "Power Plant'............ pushing the DesFran into 3rd spot................... my current vape squirt on a Friday night consist's of a choice of Power Plant, Lemon Zkittle or the knock out DesFran vape !!......................... sure can see why those 30 odd individual judges, un-known to each other, all chose the Zkittle as the favorite.................... try it, you wont forget it !!!!!...................... ask the judges !!...................... stonking strain XXL.....AM

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