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gopedsport

ANYONE USING ALIEN FLOOD AND DRAIN OR IWS PRO

17 posts in this topic

HELLO fellow growers. is anyone using a alien xl flood and drain? whats your experience ? ive heard bad things that the float sensor blocks from build up

and has anyone used a iws pro?  need peoples opinions on them before i buy one

 

 

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IIRC @GreenVision had a diary using the Alien.

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Also @SKELE-TORO has an alien as well.

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@gopedsport As @ursus1000 has said I do use the Alien RDWC so I can only speak from experience with using that for the short time I have. But for me it has been a problem free well built piece of kit. Everything was very heavy wearing and made to last, I haven't a single leak or any troubles putting the system together. They use other components where needed like air pumps etc and the air pump that came with the system is about as good as it gets for for growing. So yh' not bad at all imo.

 

 

I got to ask though mate, if your concerned about failure are you sure Flood and Drain is defo' the best place to put your investment? Especially as you already know Alien has had a few early issues with the system.

 

When I was shopping around for a hydro system I couldn't help but think that using the F&D over the RDWC or even single bubble buckets was like using a space shuttle to pop to the off licence for a pack of Rizla. Overkill. I can think of several pros the RDWC has over the F&D, but that's just my 2p, I wouldn't think wrong of anyone that brought or uses the F&D, each to their own.

 

 

GV.

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Posted (edited)

@Freax uses the flood and drain XL system I believe for his medical grows....check his diary.

Very good technique flood and drain.....used various ones for years.

 

I agree with @GreenVision tho..... in that Im a RDWC man.....personal preference tho 

 

My alien has to be getting very old now.......

 

:smokin:

 

 

Edited by zen-ken
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1 hour ago, ursus1000 said:

Also @SKELE-TORO has an alien as well.

 

AY UP! 

Yea, I got me the RDWC PRO 4 x 55L setup.  A little different to the F&D or IWS 
I really like the look of the IWS System although it seems a bit more work setting up and cleaning than the RDWC. 

 

I'd recommend the RDWC for simplicity and ease... But as with most hydro.. You fuck up, and its over before it began . 

 

As well as getting the system I recommend investing in a Chiller, The correct nutes for Recirculating System, a Bluelab Guardian or tri meter,

and Preventative measures such as Friendly Bacteria or H202 of running sterile. 
Tread carefully. :) 

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7 hours ago, GreenVision said:

@gopedsport As @ursus1000 has said I do use the Alien RDWC so I can only speak from experience with using that for the short time I have. But for me it has been a problem free well built piece of kit. Everything was very heavy wearing and made to last, I haven't a single leak or any troubles putting the system together. They use other components where needed like air pumps etc and the air pump that came with the system is about as good as it gets for for growing. So yh' not bad at all imo.

 

 

I got to ask though mate, if your concerned about failure are you sure Flood and Drain is defo' the best place to put your investment? Especially as you already know Alien has had a few early issues with the system.

 

When I was shopping around for a hydro system I couldn't help but think that using the F&D over the RDWC or even single bubble buckets was like using a space shuttle to pop to the off licence for a pack of Rizla. Overkill. I can think of several pros the RDWC has over the F&D, but that's just my 2p, I wouldn't think wrong of anyone that brought or uses the F&D, each to their own.

 

 

GV.

 

 

hey mate ive always used flood and drain over the years. took a break for 4 years and back on it  now. i always looked at a rdwc just always thought there were more effort  and more problems which can occur like root rot etc, but i suppose they grow real quick in a rdwc tho

what  kind of yield are you hitting

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@gopedsport

Hey dude, as @zen-ken mentioned I use the Alien F&D system.

Ive got the 9 pot standard system and I think it's great, at he mo I've got set up as a 6 pot system in a 2.4 x 1.2 tent but when my current grow is done I'll be setting up the entire bedroom and using the full system but with loads of room to really spread out the pots and give the plants some decent room to grow.

You mentioned a float sensor.

In the Alien brain pot there are no floats, just three metal probes which sends the info to the brain telling it when to stop flooding and start the drain sequence.

Any more questions just give me a shout. Might take a little while to get back you as I've got a lot going on at the mo, but I will get bak to you.

:v:

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12 hours ago, gopedsport said:

 

 

hey mate ive always used flood and drain over the years. took a break for 4 years and back on it  now. i always looked at a rdwc just always thought there were more effort  and more problems which can occur like root rot etc, but i suppose they grow real quick in a rdwc tho

what  kind of yield are you hitting

 

 

If I dont hit around a GPW minimum in my alien....I will be very pissy....unless its a particularly poor yielding strain....but then I can get the same in coco, ebb and flood, flood and drain.

My 600w HPS and environment dictates my yield....not my system (mostly).

 

IMO the benefits are no feeding timers to go wrong, no substrate to make disappear (when finished) and the fact you use f@ck all nutes....a good air pump, a powerful sump pump and some wild, imaginative engineering and your away. (easy and fun)

 

All the fluming, waterfalls and undercurrent can be made/adjusted and added to as time goes on to super charge your DO levels......read all of this..its gold.

 

 

Growth is explosive - use CO2 and scare the shit out of yourself as @potato1356 said.....(will be making a CO2 purchase when funds allow instead of using the bag type things).

 

IMO the biggest problems are water temps, both too hot and too cold (get a chiller and cheap aquarium heater), feeding too much (Use a RDWC schedule not a normal one - you will never get to 2.0 E.C or you aint got enough DO) and checking the PH and E.C levels - they need to be close to perfect as problems are exacerbated in RDWC. (good PH stable nutes will reduce this)

 

 

The other problem is the roots get so big it can clog the system....so make sure the connecting pipes are as big as possible (4inch if poss) and use a filter on the return line so your precious pump doesn't get blocked.   

 

As for root rot....never had it since the chiller....use silver bullet in the top up res (as a precaution)....the chiller takes care of the rest as well as keeping peak DO levels in the water.

If you do go sterile like me make sure your nute selection has no organics in it...the sterile environment you are creating (bleach) will kill the goodness in them.

 

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8 hours ago, Freax said:

@gopedsport

Hey dude, as @zen-ken mentioned I use the Alien F&D system.

Ive got the 9 pot standard system and I think it's great, at he mo I've got set up as a 6 pot system in a 2.4 x 1.2 tent but when my current grow is done I'll be setting up the entire bedroom and using the full system but with loads of room to really spread out the pots and give the plants some decent room to grow.

You mentioned a float sensor.

In the Alien brain pot there are no floats, just three metal probes which sends the info to the brain telling it when to stop flooding and start the drain sequence.

Any more questions just give me a shout. Might take a little while to get back you as I've got a lot going on at the mo, but I will get bak to you.

:v:

 

nice one mate, yes i like the look of the system . spoke to alien today the reckon they got a ne designed pot system coming out in october with stands etc, they have up graded the  timer but my only concern is the probes, where ive spoken to a few hydro shops they have told me the probes cause the problems for the leaks as they get blocked from the build up they flood. everything else i love about it but its just the probe thing , have you had any issues and what do you do to clean the probes? are you in a soft water area mate

 

 

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On 18 May 2018 at 4:08 PM, gopedsport said:

 

nice one mate, yes i like the look of the system . spoke to alien today the reckon they got a ne designed pot system coming out in october with stands etc, they have up graded the  timer but my only concern is the probes, where ive spoken to a few hydro shops they have told me the probes cause the problems for the leaks as they get blocked from the build up they flood. everything else i love about it but its just the probe thing , have you had any issues and what do you do to clean the probes? are you in a soft water area mate

 

 

The probes are just metal rods and are mostly coated leaving just a small part at the end exposed, all i do is give them a clean before each new grow. Ive never had any probs with flooding because of the probes/brain pot.

Yes mate im in a soft water area.

:v:

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They have re-designed the brain pot, with the timer separate from the bucket. This is a good idea.

A mate uses the flood and drain system , and he noticed a marked improvement by using the bigger pots, compared to the normal sized ones he had a 9 pot system in a 1.5 square tent, and I produced well, if that's your thing. 

He had a problem not long after buying it, but it turned out that he had shorted something in the timer, after spilling nutes on it (that's why its a better design with the timer away from the res lid. ) causing it to go tits up. The probes are replaceable too if you damage them. I'm sure he had to buy a new lid with timer etc.

He has 2 of their flood and drain systems a normal pot sized one and a XL pot sized one, and a RDWC XL pro 4 pot system.

Ive not used their flood and drain, but I have previously owned a 4 pot XL system of thiers and it worked fine, no problems at all.

Unfortunately the pigs stole it, along with everything else.

 

Edited by badbillybob
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I have to say I think the flood and drain features in DWC systems with brain pots are just adding unnecessary risk without any real reward... far too many stories of timers failing, floods and blocked pipes.... Not bashing on the alien system as I like the way they design pipework and their diffusers - I simply don't get it. Anyone here gotten higher yields by adding a flood and drain feature to DWC? 

flood and drain was designed to utilise optimal capillary action of substrate while eliminating blocked drippers, so why use it in a system with no substrate? People argue that it's more oxygen exposure, but if you build the system well, why would you need oxygen increase? 

 

On 5/18/2018 at 10:13 AM, zen-ken said:

Growth is explosive - use CO2 and scare the shit out of yourself as @potato1356 said.....(will be making a CO2 purchase when funds allow instead of using the bag type things).

 

feeding too much (Use a RDWC schedule not a normal one - you will never get to 2.0 E.C or you aint got enough DO) and checking the PH and E.C levels - they need to be close to perfect as problems are exacerbated in RDWC. (good PH stable nutes will reduce this)

 



With CO2 I've run canna at 3.6 EC, and tomatoes at 6.0 EC in DWC - It's all genetic traits combined with environmental factors. 

You can definitely push above 2.0 EC with low DO levels, but it'll take ages to get the plant big enough to do so.... 

I always match my lighting to DO levels - less light = less bubbles needed as plants can only photosynthesise at the rate dictated by the environment. Likewise with CO2 - if there ain't a high enough umol per m2 at canopy level and temperatures aren't high enough, it's fucking pointless. 

I've never understood why some people obsess over low EC throughout in DWC - my experience has been that the flavour is identical whether low or high, and the yields are always lower with lower EC - you can still produce a healthy plant of a similar size on the lower EC, but if it doesn't effect medicinal quality or flavonoid levels - why not go higher and produce more smoke/meds? 

Crack the whip and punish the girls I say ;) - Isn't DWC supposed to be an extreme growing method? 



 

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@potato1356......help me out here bro cause im getting confused....:oldtoker:...you know I respect your opinion.

 

The more DO you have in your system the less nutes you need as the aerated conditions dictate what the roots can absorb through osmosis?? 

This is why you would keep the EC really low in aeroponic or hyper aerated RDWC systems???....Higher E.C in these conditions hamper growth rates.

 

I understand what you are saying about environmental/strain/plant size considerations.....But without a DO meter, light meter your screwed to adjust it perfect conditions.

(is there a comparison showing light levels (600w HPS ie) and different levels of DO affecting nutrient uptake...this would have to be counter referenced against multiple strains??)

 

With what i said above tho my confusion still remains....with really high DO levels in RDWC in a tent am I cracking the whip at 1.4 E.C with RDWC with a medium feeding canna ???

Or setting myself up for a fall and should be cooking those girls? I am starting to be more concerned with the NPK ratios and what im feeding them rather than E.C (and its doing my head inlol)

 

Or are you saying Im just wasting my time increasing DO levels cause it will never effect growth/yield cause I use a 600w HPS and there is a limit to an effective DO level...... I should be at that and loading the feed in ?

With that in mind how would aeroponics work under the same conditions?

 

(taking the CO2 out of the question for a sec)

Edited by zen-ken
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Great questions there @zen-ken, I'll type it up tonight as I don't want to rush those answers :) you make really good points....

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