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astroranger

100% New to Growing and Resident Noob - LED or HPS? HPS heat concerns me.

19 posts in this topic

Hello

 

I've been a long time smoker, but have never cultivated my own Cannabis and it's getting to a point where purchasing is just no longer financially viable. I've got several autoimmune disorders and need to focus spending my cash on private healthcare as the NHS is unable to meet my needs. I've been considering growing for a long time, but as explained in the title of my post I am a complete noob when it comes to growing Cannabis and so I have a few irrational (or rational idk) fears in relation to growing. Everyone is telling me to use HPS, but all my friends are over in the U.S and in legal states and I am worried about using HPS (I was considering 600-1000w) due to it's heat signature and those propaganda videos the police put out in relation to thermal imaging. I was therefore considering using LED, but they seem very expensive in relation to HPS but the upside is they produce very little heat and use little energy in comparison to HPS. I was told about two LED brands which can apparently be purchased cheaply via Amazon and those are ViparSpectra and Mars Hydro, but I am hoping to hear from more experienced growers who perhaps have either used these products themselves or know someone who has (grow diary etc) - I have been told the gold standard is COB, but I have very little DIY skills and with my health issues I can barely hold a joint for four minutes let alone mess around with DIY electronics. What would you guys recommend? I'll probably most likely want to start off with four plants and keep it around that number and possibly reach up to 9 plants at some point down the line once I have had my first successful grow and harvest. I hope I am not expecting too much as a first time poster, but would really appreciate constructive advice on what my options are and what will most likely work out better for me.

Edited by Owderb
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Welcome @astroranger

You've made the right decision! 

I'm not one for answering questions but I'm going to shoot a few questions your way.  Given these answers it will help other folks help you out.

First off I'd say use hps over led unless

A.  You got a big budget.  Hans panels are used by well respected growers on here, plug and play led but pricey.

B. You can diy them which sounds unlikely.

 

What type of space have you got to work with?  Size & location.

How much smoke do you need? Then double it! You'll smoke more if it's your own!

What's your budget to set up?

Do you want to keep it simple or play about a bit like a hobby?

How much time are you willing to spend on growing.

 

Those are all things to think about.

Don't buy cheap and think I'll upgrade later if...... Over engineer your space and it will cause less problems.  Buy cheap buy twice.

It's an investment at the start, a big bite of money but remember it will pay off.

 

Any idea which strains suit  you best?

 

Sorry for the Spanish inquest but those answers will help you on your way....

Best of luck bud.

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HPS all the way imo, those police videos are exactly that, propaganda, there is no need to worry about heat signatures with a 600- 1000 watt light and a watt is a watt be it HPS or LED so they use the same leccy and LEDS only run marginally cooler.

There is a hell of a lot of bullshit posted about LED mainly by people trying to sell them, don,t believe the hype and given your situation HPS is perfect as its plug and play and a hell of a lot cheaper with no fannying about.

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HPS is old school now, LED COB setups and CMH have superceded them. Many growers are set in their ways and stick with what works for them which is fine but that does not mean that HPS is the best. 

 

Now the one advantage HPS does have is that there are many more HPS diaries to follow. So if you plan on copying someone's method HPS might be a slight advantage in that regard. 

 

But as far as quality of the end product is concerned you cannot beat the newer lights on the market particularly CMH this gives you many of the benefits of a high end LED COB setup but without needing the technical knowledge to build one or the deep wallet to buy one CMH is much easier to obtain than a high end COB but significantly more expensive than HPS. So if budget is a concern HPS will grow excellent buds for less outlay. 

 

Don't buy a HPS if you plan on upgrading it to another system in the near future it's a false economy.

 

Don't be fooled by people that speak in watts and lumens these are not relevant measurements the science behind growing has shifted to measuring output in PAR (photosynthetic active radiation) eg the amount of of light that is actually useful to the plants this is measured in umols and ppfd lumens is just perceived brightness just because it's bright doesn't mean the plants can use it effectively and watts are useful from an overall efficiency perspective but 600w of one type of lighting does not equate to 600w of another type however even from a heat perspective HPS put out a significant chunk more IR Radiation IR is heat. This can work for or against you depending on your scenario. There's a lot to learn in this regard. But if you want a simple recommendation CMH for the best results per £ you spend on your setup HPS if none of what I've written matters 

 

Keep it green 

 

Edited by NezA
Clarity and spelling
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Should also add that the IR output of a 600w or even 1000w HPS wouldn't be enough to attract unwanted attention without additional evidence. (a grass etc)

 

Don't smell, 

Don't tell, 

Don't sell. 

 

3 golden rules and you don't have to worry about being grassed up!  The FLIR evidence is not enough to secure a warrant these days they need additional evidence because of all the people who have been raided over tumble dryer venting etc. 

 

Also growing your own means you can get some high CBD strains on the go which in my experience work wonders for a variety of medical conditions. 

 

Keep it green 

 

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29 minutes ago, NezA said:

Should also add that the IR output of a 600w or even 1000w HPS wouldn't be enough to attract unwanted attention without additional evidence. (a grass etc)

 

Don't smell, 

Don't tell, 

Don't sell. 

 

3 golden rules and you don't have to worry about being grassed up!  The FLIR evidence is not enough to secure a warrant these days they need additional evidence because of all the people who have been raided over tumble dryer venting etc. 

 

Also growing your own means you can get some high CBD strains on the go which in my experience work wonders for a variety of medical conditions. 

 

Keep it green 

 

Yeh, my main concern about the HPS/CMH is the thermal imaging, and I was more curious if a 600w HPS/CMH would attract attention if I plan to vent it back into the room vs outside? I was thinking that 600W would be cool enough to vent back into the room, but again I am a noob so got no real idea. 

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3 minutes ago, astroranger said:

Yeh, my main concern about the HPS/CMH is the thermal imaging, and I was more curious if a 600w HPS/CMH would attract attention if I plan to vent it back into the room vs outside? I was thinking that 600W would be cool enough to vent back into the room, but again I am a noob so got no real idea. 

 

Don't vent into the room unless the room has really good ventilation you'll end up with an oxygen rich environment which will cause you issues

 

The heat is negligible a desktop computer puts out the same amount of heat as a single grow light. 

 

Do you worry about using your oven or cooker hob? These put out significantly more heat than a grow light. Now if you had a commercial grow with 15k watt of light then yeah heat is an issue but for us personal growers there really isn't a need to worry I have helicopters flying over my house regularly and haven't had any issues yet and I'm in my loft inside a room in your house is even less to worry about 

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8 minutes ago, NezA said:

 

Don't vent into the room unless the room has really good ventilation you'll end up with an oxygen rich environment which will cause you issues

 

The heat is negligible a desktop computer puts out the same amount of heat as a single grow light. 

 

Do you worry about using your oven or cooker hob? These put out significantly more heat than a grow light. Now if you had a commercial grow with 15k watt of light then yeah heat is an issue but for us personal growers there really isn't a need to worry I have helicopters flying over my house regularly and haven't had any issues yet and I'm in my loft inside a room in your house is even less to worry about 

I am in a ground floor apartment, and no I guess I don't concern myself with using the hob or my desktop computer. Could you explain the issue behind the oxygen rich environment? I was planning on using those bags which release co2 etc would that cause issues also?

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The CO2 bags will counter act the abundance of oxygen but without proper ventilation in the room humidity will be an issue as a general rule you need to vent to atmosphere you can make other arrangements work but why go through the extra hassle unless you really need to. 

 

Most homes have a suitable ventilation point you can adapt to suit your needs but obviously you are putting a lot of thought into what you're doing which is good

 

As long as you know the positives and negatives of any approach there is no right or wrong way, you need to find the way that's right for you. This might involve some trial and error,  no grow space will ever be perfect and even if you get lucky and manage to get a perfect space for you to another grower it wouldn't be perfect at all, we all just strive for perfection and get as close as we can. 

 

Keep it green 

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5 hours ago, Phoenix said:

Welcome @astroranger

You've made the right decision! 

I'm not one for answering questions but I'm going to shoot a few questions your way.  Given these answers it will help other folks help you out.

First off I'd say use hps over led unless

A.  You got a big budget.  Hans panels are used by well respected growers on here, plug and play led but pricey.

B. You can diy them which sounds unlikely.

 

What type of space have you got to work with?  Size & location.

How much smoke do you need? Then double it! You'll smoke more if it's your own!

What's your budget to set up?

Do you want to keep it simple or play about a bit like a hobby?

How much time are you willing to spend on growing.

 

Those are all things to think about.

Don't buy cheap and think I'll upgrade later if...... Over engineer your space and it will cause less problems.  Buy cheap buy twice.

It's an investment at the start, a big bite of money but remember it will pay off.

 

Any idea which strains suit  you best?

 

Sorry for the Spanish inquest but those answers will help you on your way....

Could you provide me more info on these panels? I've come across 180w online but I am not sure how many of those I need for a four plant grow and what people make of them. 

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Little bit of info here bud

I'm just going from other folks opinions, but they seem to grow nice plants.  How many you need depends on your footprint  space wise.  Two plants could be any size really.  Funny enough it's the first question I pitched above.

Work out your personal requirements.  Then start considering the kit you need.

;)

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On 25/11/2017 at 10:42 AM, Phoenix said:

How much smoke do you need? Then double it! You'll smoke more if it's your own!

Correct lol

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On 04/12/2017 at 4:59 PM, sroporilshoot said:

Correct lol

Since I started growing again I've gone from smoking a Q a week to an Oz a week... 

 

Currently using one 600w HPS and a Viparspectra 300. Now the Viparspectra is a fine little lamp but forget the 300 bit, if comparing I'd say it's about equal to 200w of HPS.  The heat from a 600w won't get ya busted. In fact the Viparspectra will get swapped out for another 600w as soon as I can be bothered to faff about for a hour (ataxia is a PITA isn't it?) 

How big a space have ya got chap? 

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On 25/11/2017 at 2:19 PM, NezA said:

The heat is negligible a desktop computer puts out the same amount of heat as a single grow light.

 

I'm glad I don't have your PC. Most PCs will be producing less than 50 watts most of the time.

 

Even the most efficient LED panel will be chucking out roughly the same amount of heat as the equivalent wattage of HPS - i.e 600 watt lamp = nearly 600 watts of heat.

 

I can't believe people are still giving out this bullshit to new growers.

 

The key thing plants in cupboards are short of is CO2, so the general principle is to make sure there's a modest gale blowing through to supply that, and a side benefit is waste heat will also be expelled.

Edited by cultivateur
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1 hour ago, cultivateur said:

I can't believe people are still giving out this bullshit to new growers.

 

:yep:

 

 

 

 

 

Hi mate @astroranger welcome to the site.

 

 

Your journey of discovery and confusion starts here lol

 

Can be confusing when you're starting out, and honestly, it doesn't get easier unless you KISS.

 

On 25/11/2017 at 10:20 AM, astroranger said:

Everyone is telling me to use HPS

 

because it works very well, it's cheap, and there's 15+ years worth of very well documented grows of every different style of growing, to follow step by step on UK420.

 

 

On 25/11/2017 at 10:20 AM, astroranger said:

I am worried about using HPS (I was considering 600-1000w) due to it's heat signature

 

There really is no need to worry. Properganda bullshit like already said. Plenty of threads on here about it. Look in the free for all and legal.

 

 

 

Helicopters aside, assuming you want to grow 600 grams of bud every crop. You can get that in a 1.2 m space with about 600 watts of light. If you want 1000g, maybe go to 1.2m x 2 with 1000w.

 

It doesn't matter what light's you use, you will be looking to have a stable environment of 24'C (+/- 4'C).

 

Even if you could run cool lights? you would end up having to heat the space to maintain steady temps, same as when the lights are off. And as said, LED's and CMH don't actually run much cooler, if at all.

 

The other issue might be height. But LED's and CMH cause bleaching of the plant when close, so again, i'd stick with hps.

 

You stated..

 

On 25/11/2017 at 10:20 AM, astroranger said:

need to focus spending my cash on private healthcare

 

 this screams hps to me too.

 

 

 

I'm no hater of LED or CMH, and i've been looking at both. I would like to add one or the other to compliment grow for the UV not given by hps, and the resulting difference in thc production, but the cost doesn't add up to me. If budget was of no concern, i'd be running a combo of all 3 like @Badbadger

 

But people are only just learning both LED and CMH, and it's still very much trial and error. In the tech, as well as the best growing technique. Leave it to the guys with experience and in a position to experiment.

 

Learn to grow first. This is easiest and cheapest under hps  :yep:

 

 

 

 

 

On 25/11/2017 at 2:11 PM, astroranger said:

cool enough to vent back into the room,

 

It's not about it being cool enough. You want fresh, oxygenated air being drawn into the tent. As much as possible, while balanccing your temps etc. If you vent from the same room you are extracting into, you will get all sorts of problems.

 

It can all be overwealming, but that's just information overload combined with mis information. Find a respected grower on here, and do what they do.

 

Good luck with it all mate.

 

Nice one,

 

Tigs :guitar:

 

P.S..

 

Have you given any thought as to whether you'll use compost or coco/hydro? lol

 

Edited by tigseyjnr
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