IMPORTANT: HPLVD

[blackpoolbouncer]

As far as I know bactericides/fungicides dont work on viroids/virus'

You would need a viricide of which there are none commercially presently from my research so far.

 

Wouldn't it be great if a wash treatment worked. We should be so lucky

[4kali]

do you mind explaining your findings on why it wouldn't and can you keep us updated with your research mate, it is very much appreciated, many thanks

4k

[blackpoolbouncer]

@4kali I got that from a book called "plant virus and viroid diseases in the tropics volume 2, epidemiology and treatment" 

 

I'll be doing some more digging on how the hops guys are getting in with it. Il report back anything I find 

[Guest]

@4kali it will be pretty obvious from what I've seen.  The fritters I had even a newbie would probably know something isn't right.

Early veg plants look absolutely fine.  As they grow, branches longer than 6" start to struggle to stay upright.  Any pressure against a knuckle will break the stem immediately.  The structure of stems is like nothing I've ever seen.  I used an old pair of blunt rusty scissors to cull it and they went through like they were diamond tipped. 

I'm suspect of two other plants, but think it's paranoia, just being safe.  They are having a little trouble holding their own weight, but are much larger plants and it's support I've needed before.  They were also very slow to root in an aero cloner. 

Very slow to root and shit stems is definitely the easiest tells to spot. 

[blackpoolbouncer]

 

Evaluation of disinfectants to prevent mechanical transmission of viruses and a viroid in greenhouse tomato production

 

Background In recent years, a number of serious disease outbreaks caused by viruses and viroids on greenhouse tomatoes in North America have resulted in significant economic losses to growers. The objectives of this study were to evaluate the effectiveness of commercial disinfectants against mechanical transmission of these pathogens, and to select disinfectants with broad spectrum reactivity to control general virus and viroid diseases in greenhouse tomato production.MethodsA total of 16 disinfectants were evaluated against Pepino mosaic virus (PepMV), Potato spindle tuber viroid (PSTVd), Tomato mosaic virus (ToMV), and Tobacco mosaic virus (TMV). The efficacy of each disinfectant to deactivate the pathogen¿s infectivity was evaluated in replicate experiments from at least three independent experiments. Any infectivity that remained in the treated solutions was assessed through bioassays on susceptible tomato plants through mechanical inoculation using inocula that had been exposed with the individual disinfectant for three short time periods (0¿10 sec, 30 sec and 60 sec). A positive infection on the inoculated plant was determined through symptom observation and confirmed with enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay (PepMV, ToMV, and TMV) and real-time reverse transcription-PCR (PSTVd). Experimental data were analyzed using Logistic regression and the Bayesian methodology.ResultsStatistical analyses using logistic regression and the Bayesian methodology indicated that two disinfectants (2% Virkon S and 10% Clorox regular bleach) were the most effective to prevent transmission of PepMV, PSTVd, ToMV, and TMV from mechanical inoculation. Lysol all-purpose cleaner (50%) and nonfat dry milk (20%) were also effective against ToMV and TMV, but with only partial effects for PepMV and PSTVd.Conclusion With the broad spectrum efficacy against three common viruses and a viroid, several disinfectants, including 2% Virkon S, 10% Clorox regular bleach and nonfat dry milk, are recommend to greenhouse facilities for consideration to prevent general virus and viroid infection on tomato plants.

[MindSoup]

Skimmed milk is a disinfectant? Well that's new to me. 

[Sargares]

Ok symptoms have been pretty well discussed. 
 

it’s asymptomatic, some cultivars show symptoms more readily. Some possibly never become symptomatic. Generally stress is a trigger for the viroid to become symptomatic. 
 

Seed transmission has conflicting evidence. In hops it’s not totally confirmed. Some studies showing low rate of transmission, others show no transmission. In cannabis there is NO data. I’ve seen some people pop hundreds of seeds and test and get no hplvd and seen others claim upto 20% of seedlings are positive. This is all unscientific though so about as reliable as something you heard on a Facebook meme. Untill there’s something seriously done by someone with the facilities and skills to do a proper job we shouldn’t assume. 
 

insect transmission is basically none existent. Root transfer etc it just doesn’t happen. Touching plants. Extremely rare. 
 

HPLVD is basically exclusively transmitted by cutting tools. If you take in clones, you should ideally have separate cutting tools for them. Do not use scissors across various plants EVER. Wash your cutting tools between plants. Get a few sets and have a bucket of BLEACH. Leave the snips in the bleach to soak and take another set out as you go. You can torch your cutters too as heat will also destroy hplvd. Fungicides and soaps etc won’t do it. 
 

best practice even running from seed is to still do the above just in case. 
 

a seed start is still a viable way of dodging hplvd as seed transmission is very likely in the single digit % or even less (if at all). It’s very unlikely your keeper cut will be infected. 
 

hplvd is what was known as dudding for years and years. The viroid that caused dudding was only identified a couple of years ago. It mostly went under the radar untill recently when it started becoming so wide spread it couldn’t be ignored. 
 

in hops they gave up trying to manage hplvd. They have basically been forced to breed hops towards hplvd resistance. 
 

it’s possible cannabis will end up going the same way although we have some advantages over field crops like hops. 

ive been a clone whore last couple of years and I’ve not seen a single case yet but it’s DEFINITELY in the U.K. I’ve got nothing atm I’d be distraught at losing so if I got it now I really wouldn’t care. It’d do nothing more than spoil a few plants. But if you’ve got much loved keepers you really should lock the doors. 

[ukbudz]

32 minutes ago, Sargares said:

Wash your cutting tools between plants. Get a few sets and have a bucket of BLEACH.

This is what fucked me, I didnt use bleach. I normally use iso between cuts on my blade which has absolutely 0 effect on it. 

[SYZYGY]

Just now, ukbudz said:

I normally use iso between cuts on my blade which has absolutely 0 effect on it. 

 

Good to know, I too used to ISO my snips between cuts. I don't take clones in, but this shit has made me paranoid enough to start using a Swann Morton surgical knife with disposable blades, fresh one for each plant. Pain in the ass really but I occasionally see 'TMV' symptoms if the plants are stressed and figured it'd be best to reduce transmission of any potential viroid.

[ukbudz]

@SYZYGY better safe then sorry mate. Though to be honest like sargares said if you're not taking clones in you'll more then likely be sound as there's not hard evidence for seed transmission yet. 

 

[Sargares]

@SYZYGY Just out of interest, I’ve never seen a TMV confirmed case in cannabis. Pretty sure that ones bro science. However there are other mosaic viruses which can infect cannabis. 
 

ive seen said patterns lots of times on cannabis plants though and NEVER noticed any negative effect on the plant other than mosaic pattern on some fans. Just cosmetic. 
 

the practice with scalpel blades is a good one. 

[SYZYGY]

Just now, Sargares said:

Just out of interest, I’ve never seen a TMV confirmed case in cannabis. Pretty sure that ones bro science. However there are other mosaic viruses which can infect cannabis. 

 

Not saying it is actually TMV, hence the inverted commas. I've seen the mosaic pattern and leaves eating themselves from the side, but no discernible negative effects on the fruit. At least one plant every run, normally showing after stress. I'm not convinced on TMV at all but there's something going on and with all this talk of HPVLD, I'm moving towards better, cleaner practices to be on the safe side. 

[4kali]

1 hour ago, Sargares said:

Ok symptoms have been pretty well discussed. 
 

it’s asymptomatic, some cultivars show symptoms more readily. Some possibly never become symptomatic. Generally stress is a trigger for the viroid to become symptomatic. 
 

Seed transmission has conflicting evidence. In hops it’s not totally confirmed. Some studies showing low rate of transmission, others show no transmission. In cannabis there is NO data. I’ve seen some people pop hundreds of seeds and test and get no hplvd and seen others claim upto 20% of seedlings are positive. This is all unscientific though so about as reliable as something you heard on a Facebook meme. Untill there’s something seriously done by someone with the facilities and skills to do a proper job we shouldn’t assume. 
 

insect transmission is basically none existent. Root transfer etc it just doesn’t happen. Touching plants. Extremely rare. 
 

HPLVD is basically exclusively transmitted by cutting tools. If you take in clones, you should ideally have separate cutting tools for them. Do not use scissors across various plants EVER. Wash your cutting tools between plants. Get a few sets and have a bucket of BLEACH. Leave the snips in the bleach to soak and take another set out as you go. You can torch your cutters too as heat will also destroy hplvd. Fungicides and soaps etc won’t do it. 
 

best practice even running from seed is to still do the above just in case. 
 

a seed start is still a viable way of dodging hplvd as seed transmission is very likely in the single digit % or even less (if at all). It’s very unlikely your keeper cut will be infected. 
 

hplvd is what was known as dudding for years and years. The viroid that caused dudding was only identified a couple of years ago. It mostly went under the radar untill recently when it started becoming so wide spread it couldn’t be ignored. 
 

in hops they gave up trying to manage hplvd. They have basically been forced to breed hops towards hplvd resistance. 
 

it’s possible cannabis will end up going the same way although we have some advantages over field crops like hops. 

ive been a clone whore last couple of years and I’ve not seen a single case yet but it’s DEFINITELY in the U.K. I’ve got nothing atm I’d be distraught at losing so if I got it now I really wouldn’t care. It’d do nothing more than spoil a few plants. But if you’ve got much loved keepers you really should lock the doors. 

thankyou

[HazyHashMan]

Any evidence to suggest whether peroxide is effective or not in preventing spread of disease ? Surprised i haven't seen that mentioned yet. I clean my nft trays and all my big bits with bleach but to be honest in past iv only used peroxide when it comes to cloning bits but will be using bleach now for sure after seeing how effective it is. Although im sure peroxide would stop contamination too, it's like natures bleach.

 

After reading this thread i can almost guarantee the apple fritter i use to have had it from the steven spilberg alien but he doesn't have that anymore thank god. Was wondering why it lacked behind everything else during multistrain grows in past. Luckly binned her a while ago now

Edited October 18, 2021 by HazyHashMan

[MindSoup]

6 hours ago, blackpoolbouncer said:

You would need a viricide of which there are none commercially presently from my research so far.

 

Lavender oil and manuka honey are both effective antiviroids. 

 

E2A Apparently honey might actually be effective against covid. 

Edited October 18, 2021 by MindSoup