Discussions on Islam

[Guest jacks lad]

i have little knowledge of islam, i only know about christianty cos they stuffed it down my throat when i was a kid, i always thought muhammad was a warrior that turned to religion cos it found it easier to control the masses

[Guest bazzad9]

If its allowed then yes I agree 100%, I don't think it will be allowed though, countries will start to ban Islam.

nonsense

thats like the argument if we legalize heroin we will all start taking it

[ELO]

that depends rather on how you define terrorist

How so?

[ratdog]

i have little knowledge

amen!

[kal17117]

http://youtu.be/qYRw-NTp_hk

[Guest bazzad9]

Wherever there is Goodness evil will try to destroy it or atleast sabotage it. Truly there is no compulsion in Islam as stated in the Quran. Regarding those who don't believe it is stated to leave them be as they will eventually come to know.

and be tortured and burnt if they dont

the quran is pretty clear the fate of non beleivers

[Twisted Rizla]

@

Is proselytism forbidden within Islam?

Just asking like.

[Guest jacks lad]

amen, is that a response to someone with learning difficulties, nice one. has never been a problem cos i make sure never to mix with clever folk.

Edited December 15, 2014 by jacks lad

[Guest bazzad9]

1. Wisconsin Sikh Temple massacre, Aug. 5, 2012. The virulent, neocon-fueled Islamophobia that has plagued post-9/11 America has not only posed a threat to Muslims, it has had deadly consequences for people of other faiths, including Sikhs. Sikhs are not Muslims; the traditional Sikh attire, including their turbans, is different from traditional Sunni, Shiite or Sufi attire. But to a racist, a bearded Sikh looks like a Muslim. Only four days after 9/11, Balbir Singh Sodhi, a Sikh immigrant from India who owned a gas station in Mesa, Arizona, was murdered by Frank Silva Roque, a racist who obviously mistook him for a Muslim.

But Sodhi’s murder was not the last example of anti-Sikh violence in post-9/11 America. On Aug. 5, 2012, white supremacist Wade Michael Page used a semiautomatic weapon to murder six people during an attack on a Sikh temple in Oak Creek, Wisconsin. Page’s connection to the white supremacist movement was well-documented: he had been a member of the neo-Nazi rock bands End Empathy and Definite Hate. Attorney General Eric Holder described the attack as “an act of terrorism, an act of hatred.” It was good to see the nation’s top cop acknowledge that terrorist acts can, in fact, involve white males murdering people of color.

2. The murder of Dr. George Tiller, May 31, 2009. Imagine that a physician had been the victim of an attempted assassination by an Islamic jihadist in 1993, and received numerous death threats from al-Qaeda after that, before being murdered by an al-Qaeda member. Neocons, Fox News and the Christian Right would have had a field day. A physician was the victim of a terrorist killing that day, but neither the terrorist nor the people who inflamed the terrorist were Muslims. Dr. George Tiller, who was shot and killed by anti-abortion terrorist Scott Roeder on May 31, 2009, was a victim of Christian Right terrorism, not al-Qaeda.

Tiller had a long history of being targeted for violence by Christian Right terrorists. In 1986, his clinic was firebombed. Then, in 1993, Tiller was shot five times by female Christian Right terrorist Shelly Shannon (now serving time in a federal prison) but survived that attack. Given that Tiller had been the victim of an attempted murder and received countless death threats after that, Fox News would have done well to avoid fanning the flames of unrest. Instead, Bill O’Reilly repeatedly referred to him as “Tiller the baby killer." When Roeder murdered Tiller, O’Reilly condemned the attack but did so in a way that was lukewarm at best.

Keith Olbermann called O’Reilly out and denounced him as a “facilitator for domestic terrorism” and a “blindly irresponsible man.” And Crazy for God author Frank Schaffer, who was formerly a figure on the Christian Right but has since become critical of that movement, asserted that the Christian Right’s extreme anti-abortion rhetoric “helped create the climate that made this murder likely to happen.” Neocon Ann Coulter, meanwhile, viewed Tiller’s murder as a source of comic relief, telling O’Reilly, “ I don't really like to think of it as a murder. It was terminating Tiller in the 203rd trimester.” The Republican/neocon double standard when it comes to terrorism is obvious. At Fox News and AM neocon talk radio, Islamic terrorism is a source of nonstop fear-mongering, while Christian Right terrorism gets a pass.

3. Knoxville Unitarian Universalist Church shooting, July 27, 2008. On July 27, 2008, Christian Right sympathizer Jim David Adkisson walked into the Knoxville Unitarian Universalist Church in Knoxville, Tennessee during a children’s play and began shooting people at random. Two were killed, while seven others were injured but survived. Adkisson said he was motivated by a hatred of liberals, Democrats and gays, and he considered neocon Bernard Goldberg’s book, 100 People Who Are Screwing Up America, his political manifesto. Adkisson (who pleaded guilty to two counts of first-degree murder and is now serving life in prison without parole) was vehemently anti-abortion, but apparently committing an act of terrorism during a children’s play was good ol’ Republican family values. While Adkisson’s act of terrorism was reported on Fox News, it didn't get the round-the-clock coverage an act of Islamic terrorism would have garnered.

4. The murder of Dr. John Britton, July 29, 1994. To hear the Christian Right tell it, there is no such thing as Christian terrorism. Tell that to the victims of the Army of God, a loose network of radical Christianists with a long history of terrorist attacks on abortion providers. One Christian Right terrorist with ties to the Army of God was Paul Jennings Hill, who was executed by lethal injection on Sept. 3, 2003 for the murders of abortion doctor John Britton and his bodyguard James Barrett. Hill shot both of them in cold blood and expressed no remorse whatsoever; he insisted he was doing’s God’s work and has been exalted as a martyr by the Army of God.

5. The Centennial Olympic Park bombing, July 27, 1996. Paul Jennings Hill is hardly the only Christian terrorist who has been praised by the Army of God; that organization has also praised Eric Rudolph, who is serving life without parole for a long list of terrorist attacks committed in the name of Christianity. Rudolph is best known for carrying out the Olympic Park bombing in Atlanta during the 1996 Summer Olympics—a blast that killed spectator Alice Hawthorne and wounded 111 others. Hawthorne wasn’t the only person Rudolph murdered: his bombing of an abortion clinic in Birmingham, Alabama in 1998 caused the death of Robert Sanderson (a Birmingham police officer and part-time security guard) and caused nurse Emily Lyons to lose an eye.

Rudolph’s other acts of Christian terrorism include bombing the Otherwise Lounge (a lesbian bar in Atlanta) in 1997 and an abortion clinic in an Atlanta suburb in 1997. Rudolph was no lone wolf: he was part of a terrorist movement that encouraged his violence. And the Army of God continues to exalt Rudolph as a brave Christian who is doing God’s work.

6. The murder of Barnett Slepian by James Charles Kopp, Oct. 23, 1998. Like Paul Jennings Hill, Eric Rudolph and Scott Roeder, James Charles Kopp is a radical Christian terrorist who has been exalted as a hero by the Army of God. On Oct. 23, 1998 Kopp fired a single shot into the Amherst, NY home of Barnett Slepian (a doctor who performed abortions), mortally wounding him. Slepian died an hour later. Kopp later claimed he only meant to wound Slepian, not kill him. But Judge Michael D'Amico of Erin County, NY said that the killing was clearly premeditated and sentenced Kopp to 25 years to life. Kopp is a suspect in other anti-abortion terrorist attacks, including the non-fatal shootings of three doctors in Canada, though it appears unlikely that Kopp will be extradited to Canada to face any charges.

http://www.alternet.org/tea-party-and-right/10-worst-terror-attacks-extreme-christians-and-far-right-white-men?page=0%2C1

[ramblingmadman]

@@bazzad9

i would be interested in discussing how the quran as we know it came to be ....its seems very simular to the bible ......gather all the material and sort out what you like what you dont and in the case of the quran burn whats left

how is this the word of god or even important if its based on the decisions of a couple of men ?(who's descions are had to check as they burnt the rest)

As I understand it, the salient difference is that the quran ,for believers, actually IS the direct word of god. This is, apparently , why boys in my lads class at primary school go to arabic school t the weekend . They study both islam and the 'high'arabic of the quran. This is different from the arabic spoken at home which is obviously different in different linguistic groups. 'Quranic' arabic is identical to the language used when it was dictated to the prophet.

This is a bit garbled , as it is my understanding from what ive pieced together , but in the other thread I vaguely remember somone talking about translations of the quran . To my understanding one of the principles of the faitn is that the quran is still identical to what it was.

?

Also , if someone knows about islam , but doesnt believe, how are they regarded by Allah , and by extension muslims? Ie someone who tries to live a good , nonexploiting life , who helps others etc etc .

[ratdog]

amen, is that a response to someone with learning difficulties, nice one.

no, it`s a response to a troll, Grandad

don`t play the sympathy card with me

[chronic1]

oh i agree mate the taliban etc are a minority

but its not good vs bad there is a scale and as with all there can be harm ,islam isnt special in this regard they are all as bad as each other ,no one is worse

but then we get back to the deciding "what we like" if its the word of god then its the word of god regardless of our moral values ...we cant judge god etc ....if its simply what we like (which in my opinion is a good thing) why thew need for god ? we are making the moral judgements regardless of a god

and the flip side is those with an agenda can also "decide" the taliban etc without a gauge or way of knowing who is right in god terms we are simply using our own morals that we make and stick to ,the god becomes irrelevant

I'm intelligent enough to know that Religious writings are the word of Man and not God. But I also believe in a higher being that we are connected to. The world has gone to shit over the last 100 yrs or so and I think Islam has some of the answers we are looking for.

[Guest bazzad9]

Muslims follow the same god as Christians, Jesus is one of there Prophets along with Moses ! Go do some reading

why are the two so opposed then ?

its meaningless to say its the same god .......which christsains .....which muslims ....they dont even agree between themselves on who or what god is

or jesus for that matter

its like saying to tottenham fans well you do sort of support west ham ....its the same football game ......nonsense mate ...sorry

[chronic1]

and be tortured and burnt if they dont

the quran is pretty clear the fate of non beleivers

"be carefull of whats quotes you use ,islam has the law of abrogation which means any later stuff takes over the older stuff"

[Hiphip]

Seems like a good place to put this

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/sayed-mahdi-almodarresi/pope-ayatollah_b_6288444.html

When the Pope Met the Grand Ayatollah, History Was Made

Sayed Mahdi al-Modarresi, Faith Leader, Theology Lecturer, Author of Upcoming "Why Muslims Are Weird".#

Last week, with little fanfare and under heavy security, an historic meeting took place in Rome which marked a turning point in interfaith relations. Inside the 16th century Casina Pio IV villa, home to the Vatican's Pontifical Academy of Sciences, seven clerics representing over five billion people overcame lingering traditions of suspicion to commit to the eradication of modern day slavery by the year 2020. The summit concluded with the signing of a declaration that condemns slavery as a crime against humanity.

The Global Freedom Network, the organization behind the initiative, was hoping to bring to light the abhorrent evil that affects nearly 36 million people, but the meeting went above and beyond its intended purpose and literally made history. For the first time since the establishment of the Catholic church, the Pope met face to face with a Grand Ayatollah representing the Shia faith. Not only did the two become co-signatories of an important document, but they shook hands, and chatted informally before and after the event at one of the Vatican's beautifully decorated garden pavilions. Recognizing the significance of hosting a Shia leader at the heart of the Catholic church for the first time, the Pope followed the Grand Ayatollah into the pavilion to shake his hands. "How are you?" said Grand Ayatollah al-Modarresi, a moderate but powerful scholar with a big following in the Shia world. "Fine, thank you" replied the Holy Father who looked a little weary having just arrived from a trip to Turkey. "It is important for me that you would be fine" said al-Modarresi, surprising the Pontiff with his English. "Because if you are fine, many people around the world will be fine". Most notable is how both leaders showed humility and set aside protocol and engaged with one another on a personal level. There were plenty of genuine smiles, handshakes, and a group photo.

Adding to the uniqueness of the event, was the fact that it was attended by Al Azhar, the Sunni world's foremost religious establishment, as well as the Chief Rabbi of Argentina (who sat to the left of the Grand Ayatollah) and the Archbishop of Canterbury Revd Justin Welby (who exchanged light-spirited banter with the Shia leader as he sat to his right). Following the ceremony and as we joked about how easily people condemn others as hell-bound, I extended an invitation to the Archbishop to visit the holy Shia shrines in Karbala and Najaf on behalf of the Grand Ayatollah.

In the world of international diplomacy, all of this might seem normal, expected even. But this wasn't politics, but something much bigger and more meaningful. While it would make sense to tackle the problem of slavery by appealing for government intervention, the team behind the initiative decided to take a different route. Andrew Forrest, the Australian philanthropist businessman who is on the Executive Board of the GFN and has financed its work told me he opted to involve religious leaders because "politicians can enact laws banning certain practices, but only faith leaders can change the deep-seated values which influence people's behaviors".

Forrest then embarked on a strenuous journey to bring the world's highest ranking religious leaders together to condemn slavery. Most religious establishments are, by definition, riddled with protocol and grueling formalities, and assembling senior figures of different faiths is a gargantuan task. With tireless efforts spanning over a year, the GFN and the WalkFree Foundation worked with Vatican officials, finally achieving the impossible, and the supreme clergymen and women convened on December 2, 2014.

The exceptional nature of the event was summarized by Andrew Forrest in an interview with CNN: "for the first time, a Grand Ayatollah shook hands with a Pope". Indeed it was the first time the global faiths had met through their highest representatives. And the handshake was particularly timely too. It comes amid a crisis reshaping the geopolitics in the Middle East where both the Shia and Christians are facing an existential threat and a war for their very survival.

In fact, Grand Ayatollah al-Modarresi was the first Shia religious leader (with Grand Ayatollah Sistani following shortly after) to issue a call to arms against the ISIS menace, after its swift capture of large swathes of land in Iraq. In his statement, al-Modarresi warned against the destruction of churches and temples belonging to all religions. Shia religious centers have even opened their doors to Christian refugees, with the holy cities of Karbala and Najaf now serving as homes to thousands of Christians as well as Shias who have fled possible massacres. In effect, Shias and Christians have found themselves perfectly aligned in the fight against terror. Highlighting their insistence on positive engagement, not just one but two senior Iraqi Shia leaders participated. Grand Ayatollah Sheikh Bashir Najafi spoke via video at the summit.

There is another reason why this meeting was critical. The world has for a long time seen the Shia as a negligible minority. But with hundreds of millions of Shias around the world and at least eleven countries where they are either a majority or a significant minority, the world has finally awoken to the fact that Shias are not just a force to be reckoned with, but an ally to depend on. Even the Vatican now recognizes that the Shia faith is not distilled in either a single country, nor one monolith.

"The world is a big place" the Grand Ayatollah told the organizers, "and there are many different groups, religions, and factions.. We must engage with them for the betterment of humanity.. While some have called for a 'dialogue of civilizations', I call for the 'perfection of civilizations', whereby each civilization completes and perfects the other." He cited the Quran: "God talks about the Prophet as being 'A mercy to mankind', not just Muslims, but all of mankind". In his sp

eech, attended not only by the Pope and other world religious leaders but also foreign ambassadors to the Holy See, academics, and Hollywood celebrities, he said "at its core, divine religion is one, but failure to understand religion has divided human beings and created barriers between us.. We must exert extra effort to tear down those barriers and join religions under the umbrella of a common term". He concluded by saying "we have a calling to love one another.. to protect the environment, to stop the spread of weapons of mass destruction, and to end slavery in all its forms." A standing ovation ensued and the audience was electrified.

Of course, this being the first of its kind, it was merely an ice-breaker of sorts, but a significant step towards greater religious harmony. If such high level summits remain on the agenda and leaders of the world's religions continue to engage one another to address matters of mutual concern, friendships will be forged, relationships will be strengthened, and, in the words of Grand Ayatollah al-Modarresi, "many people around the world will be fine".

Cheers