Butane Honey Oil

[FarmerPalmersNT]

On 22/11/2018 at 10:34 AM, potato1356 said:

Yes most people are drawn in by the safety aspect and cheaper setup costs  

My issues are - no live resin options for the press - no easy options to alter end product consistency (diamonds, sauce, caviar, honeycomb etc). 

Also the thc levels of most rosin is laughable compared to bho - a rosin presser got his extract tested with loads of us last week, and his rosin is seen as the best in the area by a long shot - All three of his extracts came out at 85%+ delta 9 thc - ouch. Heat ain't nobody's friend. 
 

 

 

I respectfully disagree there - high temps and too long a press maybe? My rosin comes out give or take the same as my BHO. Never had anywhere close to 85%! I have testing capacity at home. The terp content of the rosin is generally higher in my experience, possibly due to the higher levels of cell contents in the rosin (some of which is a disadvantage). I use fresh frozen bubble hash and also freeze dried fresh flower for live rosin, both produce an explosive amount of terpenes. My new driptech press means that with a low temp press the hot resin barely contacts the air before it is immediately cooled which is proving a big advantage in quality it seems. The amount of the more volatile terps in this can be smelt and even seen in the viscosity of the product. It changes flavour more rapidly than BHO if not used.

 

The one thing rosin does fall down on is control over the end product. I'm hopeful that in time this will change however and I am starting to experiment with aeration and vacuum/temperature cycles on the rosin with the beginnings of some interesting results. The limiting factor will always be the ease of defatting/dewaxing BHO vs rosin, until someone comes up with something realistic for home setups that doesn't involve solvents. 

 

I do still love making and vaping both equally, and have a decent closed loop as well as my rosin presses. I would say I almost always favour making rosin, but mainly due to the convenience aspect. Flavour and quality between the two is not a consideration.

[DBK]

2 hours ago, FarmerPalmersNT said:

 

Just means that its possible more terps were lost - so greater THC proportionally, less flavour. I wouldn't make that assumption from the THC% alone though.

 

Okay this makes sense, ty

[monkeypig]

@potato1356  Thanks again for making me dribble all over my screen.

 

I look forward to your updates of your super dooper rig. I hope you wear a lab coat when you're playing with the rig, because I really think it will add to the effect

 

You're so lucky you're 300 miles away or I'd be knocking at your door with my next harvest and a big slab of dry ice

[catfish]

would pushing the rosin through a fine filter not de-wax it ?

[Donkeybong]

Run a zip of “Deep Sense” today, no idea what strain it was/is, just went for the lightest/softest locally available hash. Run this batch old skool style in a frozen Kilner jar as somehow I’ve poked a big hole in the filter on the column. Here’s the results after the initial purge, the smell is quite familiar, nice light colour to it, pleased with the outcome. 

 

 

[potato1356]

13 hours ago, FarmerPalmersNT said:

 

Just means that its possible more terps were lost - so greater THC proportionally, less flavour. I wouldn't make that assumption from the THC% alone though.

wrong - it implies that either the extract was decarbed after being made, or the flower was de-carbed before the extractor got to it.

Aka - make edibles out of it - terrible bho though. 
 

13 hours ago, FarmerPalmersNT said:

 

 

I respectfully disagree there - high temps and too long a press maybe? My rosin comes out give or take the same as my BHO. Never had anywhere close to 85%! I have testing capacity at home. The terp content of the rosin is generally higher in my experience, possibly due to the higher levels of cell contents in the rosin (some of which is a disadvantage). I use fresh frozen bubble hash and also freeze dried fresh flower for live rosin, both produce an explosive amount of terpenes. My new driptech press means that with a low temp press the hot resin barely contacts the air before it is immediately cooled which is proving a big advantage in quality it seems. The amount of the more volatile terps in this can be smelt and even seen in the viscosity of the product. It changes flavour more rapidly than BHO if not used.

 

The one thing rosin does fall down on is control over the end product. I'm hopeful that in time this will change however and I am starting to experiment with aeration and vacuum/temperature cycles on the rosin with the beginnings of some interesting results. The limiting factor will always be the ease of defatting/dewaxing BHO vs rosin, until someone comes up with something realistic for home setups that doesn't involve solvents. 

 

I do still love making and vaping both equally, and have a decent closed loop as well as my rosin presses. I would say I almost always favour making rosin, but mainly due to the convenience aspect. Flavour and quality between the two is not a consideration.

If your press runs hotter than 27ºC - you're wrong.

Rosin is caveman tech, simple as that. People can convince themselves its the same as bho if they want, but why do all the top extractors run bho? Live resin, wider spanning terp profiles, higher thc, higher cbd etc etc etc. 

If your rosin matches your bho - you should improve your bho tech.

more than likely you experience a terpier rosin than bho because - as you have to purge bho (a process that it's extremely easy to lose terps if you don't know what you're doing) for a number of days, you've lost most of your terps by the time the butane is gone, whereas rosin is instantly smokable, so even if it's lower in terps at the time of extraction, the bho will come out less due to either poor extraction tech or rookie purging.  

A rookie error is pulling too hard a vacuum when the extract still has too much butane in it - terps are more volatile and will escape with 'tane unless watched carefully. 

why vacuum rosin??? 

Rosin pressing even leaves waxes in eh? fucking hell it's worse than I thought! 

Please don't take as of this as hostile - just being honest with my opinions and presenting what I've learnt upon my travels - no facts only observations  

8 hours ago, catfish said:

would pushing the rosin through a fine filter not de-wax it ?

no - this is filtration, not de-waxing. Dewaxing requires solvent and sub zero temperatures - and unless you have a £6000 rotor-vac still, you'll never pull all of the solvent back out anyway (if using Isopropyl)....

 

2 hours ago, Donkeybong said:

Run a zip of “Deep Sense” today, no idea what strain it was/is, just went for the lightest/softest locally available hash. Run this batch old skool style in a frozen Kilner jar as somehow I’ve poked a big hole in the filter on the column. Here’s the results after the initial purge, the smell is quite familiar, nice light colour to it, pleased with the outcome. 

 

 

 

Looking good on the colour  
 

I'd highly recommend some oilslick paper for blasting onto dude - those mats leach nasties A LOT! plus shitloads of silicon and plastics in your meds  

also just a side note - NEVER EVER SCRAPE PARCHMENT, SILICONE OR PTFE SHEETS - for exactly the same reason. 

[Donkeybong]

@potato1356 i usually use the PTFE sheet, but ive run out and forgot to order more. typically i haven't remembered until i was ready to pour........ ill take this as a reminder and order some now 

[FarmerPalmersNT]

46 minutes ago, potato1356 said:

wrong - it implies that either the extract was decarbed after being made, or the flower was de-carbed before the extractor got to it.

Aka - make edibles out of it - terrible bho though. 
 

If your press runs hotter than 27ºC - you're wrong.

Rosin is caveman tech, simple as that. People can convince themselves its the same as bho if they want, but why do all the top extractors run bho? Live resin, wider spanning terp profiles, higher thc, higher cbd etc etc etc. 

If your rosin matches your bho - you should improve your bho tech.

more than likely you experience a terpier rosin than bho because - as you have to purge bho (a process that it's extremely easy to lose terps if you don't know what you're doing) for a number of days, you've lost most of your terps by the time the butane is gone, whereas rosin is instantly smokable, so even if it's lower in terps at the time of extraction, the bho will come out less due to either poor extraction tech or rookie purging.  

A rookie error is pulling too hard a vacuum when the extract still has too much butane in it - terps are more volatile and will escape with 'tane unless watched carefully. 

why vacuum rosin??? 

Rosin pressing even leaves waxes in eh? fucking hell it's worse than I thought! 

Please don't take as of this as hostile - just being honest with my opinions and presenting what I've learnt upon my travels - no facts only observations  

Sorry, yes, take your point with the lab analysis. Didn't read/engage brain.

 

I still disagree fundamentally. My level of experience with BHO is far from exactly master level but I do understand through reading and experience how to purge and produce a high quality product. I still enjoy the rosin in terms of flavours and quality as much as the BHO. They are different. I still make both. 

 

Vacuuming the rosin was to try and get a better more easy to handle product. 

[Vicfirth12]

You can make live resin rosin. 

[FarmerPalmersNT]

5 minutes ago, Vicfirth12 said:

You can make live resin rosin. 

 

Yep, and I have. Also should clarify, reason for vaccing rosin is also to increase stability and recover any residual moisture.

[Guest]

Interesting thread, I'm fairly new to extracting as I've only ever made FECO . 

 

I appreciate this may come across as naive , but, why in this day and age are people still extracting with butane and iso? That's a genuine question. I simply can't get my head around the idea of making meds that have risk.

 

[Arthur Mix]

All this from someone who works with solvents indoors  .. 

[DBK]

12 hours ago, potato1356 said:

wrong - it implies that either the extract was decarbed after being made, or the flower was de-carbed before the extractor got to it.

Aka - make edibles out of it - terrible bho though. 

 

You'd need much longer than 1 / 2 minute press at 90c to fully decarb right?

 

My original question, what's bad about it being high in THC instead of THCA? Does it impact potency/flavour etc, whats the downside? (genuinely curious!)

 

If your product is 60% THC and you smoke it vs 60% THCA, whats the difference exactly?

 

[FarmerPalmersNT]

3 hours ago, Breezus said:

Interesting thread, I'm fairly new to extracting as I've only ever made FECO . 

 

I appreciate this may come across as naive , but, why in this day and age are people still extracting with butane and iso? That's a genuine question. I simply can't get my head around the idea of making meds that have risk.

 

 

If you purge properly there's negligible residual. The trouble is that for a lot of folks  paranoia sets in and you purge longer or harder and lose terps. That said I remember a big expose of the top extraction houses over the pond and every single one had residual at surprisingly high levels. I'll see if I can find a link.

 

However, the fact that some terps yield MC and benzenes at high temp should be more of a concern! You inhale more butane lighting a cigarette.

 

For me, careful, well ventilated BHO (not open blasting) produces a relatively safe and quality product I enjoy. Still prefer rosin marginally. Also, despite my previous posts I don't believe more terps=better. Some products I've actually left to warm to take the harshness off. The most incredible smelling extracts sometimes taste way too harsh and overwhelming even at low temps. 

 

Too many simplistic arguments online to claim one as universally better than the other. Purity isn't quality, if it was then by this logic the best hash in the world is shite, and that's proper 'caveman technology . Quality is subjective. No-one likes contaminants but that's where it stops.

 

[FarmerPalmersNT]

I have only basic experience of making qwiso, and tinctures with grain alcohol but it tends to take a lot more lipids and chlorophyll and just doesn't vape as nicely. I've yet to see anything that vaped and tasted nice but very happy to be proven wrong. Friend of mine is big into his FECO but for capsules mainly. He has a lot of crazy expensive kit (and is a professional organic chemist). Still don't like vaping it. For medical purposes though yeah, possibly is the best bet if what you want is the fullest spectrum.

 

Super critical CO2 is probably the safest and cleanest option, but a bit beyond most folks means.