All aboard the atheist bus

[ninorc]

Strange how many people believe in the law of Karma but not of a god type power to unify it.

Surely if one believes in karma, one must also believe in dhamma (some say dharma)? Unless one's name is Earl, like.

Edit for speeling.

Edited October 23, 2008 by ninorc

[Guest daviie]

See Ninorc this is what happens with your chumming with those Andromedans. I knew no good would come of it.

So you and the now very wealthy Prof Dawkins, and others possibly, are atheists. Frankly Ninorc, I don't think that's of any significance at all to anyone, other than of course your hopefully good atheist selves.

To have a compulsion to run up a little gang of prospective atheists, by however means, silly or otherwise, would strongly suggest to me that you need confirmation of your position. I think you'll find that it's quite all right nowadays, and that you don't need to assist anyone else to "come out"

Now Comment is free, at £11,000, I'll assume is an Andromedan concept.

You know in my life I've found that people who bang on relentlessy on 'proving' some point are almost always bothered

even more by that points polar opposite. Strange.

Regards to the Andromedans, yur's truly, Daviie.

[Guest gunnaknow]

One must scrutinize any philosophical or theological statement. If we scrutinize the message in the advert, the word that sticks out as being groundless is the word "probably". How exactly would one calculate the probability for the existence or non existence of god? There aren't any figures or equations that could calculate the probability of the existence or non existence of something that has never been proven to be encountered before. Even if one did encounter god personally, it would be impossible to prove to others who hadn't had the privilege of seeing. Even if there were miracles to use as evidence, it would be impossible to prove that they weren't just flukes of nature, or that they weren't performed by a powerful entity other than "the" god.

Like wise, it's impossible to calculate the probability of the non existence of god because a lack of evidence for the existence of god doesn't support the opposite case of the non existence of god. If one doesn't witness proven miracles or have the privilege of a personal dialogue with god, one would never know if that was because god didn't exist, or whether it was because god either didn't care to answer, didn't operate or function in that way, wanted you to figure life out for yourself, or any number of other reasons. If you scrutinize the problem thoroughly, with sound, rational thinking, it becomes clear that any statement regarding the probability of the existence or non existence of god, is infact based on nothing more than beliefs.

The advertisment is very cleverly thought out, yet deceptive. The word "probably" has been included to portray atheism as an authority of calculable reasoning, to distuingish itself from the belief based religions. However, as I revealed above, closer scrutiny reveals atheism as a purely belief based philosophy, just like most of the world's religions. There is nothing wrong with believing in something that can't be proven or disproven, it just shouldn't be dressed up as being remotely based on probability, or calculable reasoning. It is a purely belief based philosphy.

I personally take an agnostic, middle stance on all of this. I see no reason to believe or disbelieve in the existence of god. I simply admit that I don't know and that I therefore needn't bother wasting my time hypothesizing. Similar to the buddhist philosophy in that regard. It's better to admit that you don't actually truly know anything about anything. Do you even know that the world that you see and hear is real and that it isn't just an elaborate dream or illusion? I'm not suggesting that it is, but can you prove or disprove either case? If the answer is no, can you accurately calculate the probability of it being real and plot a graph? If the answer is again no, then what exactly do you know, in the truest sense of the word? If your answer is nothing, then isn't the word knowledge really a misnomer and all knowledge really just a set of beliefs? I'm not going to assert anything, for that would suggest that I think I know, when I don't. I'm leaving it as a question for you to ask yourself.

Gunna

Edited October 29, 2008 by gunnaknow

[Guest dr rockster]

Nice post gunnaknow.

It reminds me of the scene in Silent Running when the Bomb gets into a philosophical discussion with his controller.

But you are perfectly right in that if an atheist doesnt concede he doesnt know the unknowable then its just a matter of belief by him.

[Guest roger]

But you are perfectly right in that if an atheist doesnt concede he doesnt know the unknowable then its just a matter of belief by him.

reasoned judgment plays a part too.

[Guest gunnaknow]

reasoned judgment plays a part too.

Both reasoning and judgement are based on beliefs. Hense the reason why it's possible to make poor judgments and reason poorly. All religions are based on reasoned judgement. To insinuate that it's possible to calculate the probability for the existence or non existence of god is to reason poorly.

Edited October 29, 2008 by gunnaknow

[DtH]

reasoned judgment plays a part too.

Both reasoning and judgement are based on beliefs. Hense the reason why it's possible to make poor judgments and reason poorly. All religions are based on reasoned judgement. To insinuate that it's possible to calculate the probability for the existence or non existence of god is to reason poorly.

ever turned reasoned judgement off for any length of time?

[Guest roger]

plenty!

[Guest dr rockster]

reasoned judgment plays a part too.

Both reasoning and judgement are based on beliefs. Hense the reason why it's possible to make poor judgments and reason poorly. All religions are based on reasoned judgement. To insinuate that it's possible to calculate the probability for the existence or non existence of god is to reason poorly.

ever turned reasoned judgement off for any length of time?

Does 20 years of heroin fit the bill?

But seriously,if you apply reasoning and judgement to man made religion you must come to the conclusion its not divinely inspired.

But that doesnt answer the fundamental question of where the universe ultimately came from although even that may be beyond our

comprehension,what with what has been revealed by physics there may be realms of existence so strange and different,well,we just don't know?

Mans hope for immortality stems from his darker simpler past,when the supernatural was the only explanation and the priests sold it to us,man they did a sales job on us lot.

And look at the world now?

[scraglor]

One must scrutinize any philosophical or theological statement. If we scrutinize the message in the advert, the word that sticks out as being groundless is the word "probably". How exactly would one calculate the probability for the existence or non existence of god? There aren't any figures or equations that could calculate the probability of the existence or non existence of something that has never been proven to be encountered before. Even if one did encounter god personally, it would be impossible to prove to others who hadn't had the privilege of seeing. Even if there were miracles to use as evidence, it would be impossible to prove that they weren't just flukes of nature, or that they weren't performed by a powerful entity other than "the" god.

if the universe is infinite, then the probability is 100%?

[Guest roger]

It would have to be at least as improbable as evolution, that god exists

[Guest dr rockster]

No way. Barking right up the wrong tree as just because something is infinite(without end)gives no reason to bring the supernatural into the equation.

[scraglor]

why not? infinity is beyond human comprehension, and so is god (well supposed to be, organised religion seems to often try and personify god)

Edited November 2, 2008 by scraglor

[Guest roger]

You can't deduce that just because you can think it, that a thing can or should exist.

[scraglor]

i was just talking about probability, i'm agnostic, i don't really see the point in wasting time trying to work out if there's a god or not, certainly not going to restrict my life choices by believing in something blindly. it's fun to poke at the question though

existence is a personal thing anyway, existence is can only come to be if there is a consciousness to experience it, so if someone believes in something then it exists in at least some form, if only in belief

e2a: my point being, religion is stupid, because it's unprovable one way or the other until death, by which time if you were wrong then it's too late anyway, so why bother being athiest/theist? better just to get on and survive

Edited November 2, 2008 by scraglor