Boojum Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 I remember an acid trip I took as a youth, out on a hill in the middle of nowhere around a fire with a couple of good mates (the VERY best way to take hallucinogens ). First time I had approaching a peak experience and I recall looking up at the cloudless night sky, and being hit (that's the only way to describe it, being hit, like a sledgehammer to the cerebrum) by an extended hallucination about the vastness of the universe. Before then I'd obviously known that it's big but that kinda big that's just so fucking BIG there's no room for it in your head, so you don't think about it too much. But this acid had expanded my mind so much, so to speak, that for a brief time there was something approaching sufficient room in there to contemplate the vastness of space. The overriding feelings I took away from that were awe (proper 'religious' awe, even though I did not then and still do not have any religious beliefs), utter insignificance and a kind of cosmic vertigo, to be standing on the edge of a void that to all intents and purposes for one as small, insignificant and short lived as I may as well be infinite. Pretty much couldn't speak for the rest of the trip. Had many peak experiences since then, full on ego death, a part of the universe stuff, but that first time was a pretty mindfucking experience, the first time I truly grasped even one iota of the vastness of the universe and the smallness of us. I can see why some people need to create a God to deal with it, I'm sure some folks would go mad without (I, however, am safe from that eventuality, I was already barking mad beforehand ) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambium Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Does anybody think that human consciousness was awakened by psychoactive substances? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boojum Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Where do you get your figures from??? and which theories do you mean?? 1:1, or evens means that the likelyhood of our universe coming into being, (I,m assuming your talking about) was 50 50, and 0:1 means that it has statistically no chance at all of ever coming into being, I was under the impression that it was unknown at this time, (and possibly for all time), because anything that pre dates the big bang cannot be known about, merely speculated on. (another example of your Philosophy in science EH??) and certainly cannot be given any figures. That's kinda what I mean, just perhaps expressed it in a clumsy manner. The figures are made up, cos when you're dealing with such astronomically unlikely things as the big bang or the existence of an omnipotent being then statistics become kinda a nonsense. It happened how it happened, so the chances of it happening that way are odds on, it didn't happen any other way so the chances of it happening that way are zero. That's no more illogical than attributing any way it may have happened with an infinitesimally small probability. Like where the numbers run out in theoretical physics, you get to a certain stage of probability (or lack thereof) when the statistics run out. All unlikelihoods are so unlikely differentiating between their probabilities becomes pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughie Green Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Leaves you feeling utterly insignificant and tiny eh, anyone remember the film board of Canada film where it starts with a Mosquito on a boys arm, goes into the blood stream to the atomic level then zooms out to the universe and back again?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martian Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 There is more chance that we have been planted here then everything evolving from the big bang Every theory on how the earth began is biillions/1I got into this conversation with an old school stoner the other night and it sent our heads west we are all open to our opinions on this matter and its scary to think one of them might be true... Anyway im keepin mine open :wink: taaaaaake me to your dealer Hi All. So there is "more chance we were planted here", than "evolving from the big bang" Are you sure??????? There isn't the merest sniff of evidence that we were planted here, while the number of evidences for the Big Bang are numerous, The expansion of the univers, the Cosmic Microwave background radiation, the fact we can look back in time BILLIONS of years into the past, and acctually watch as the universe evolves before our eyes!!!!! Isn't Just those, many many times more compelling than some silly fairy stories written at a time when as a race we knew far far less than we do now, and the main fact for believing these stories is that most poeple are brought up, (brainwashed) into believing by parents and elders, from a very early age, and don't really wish to find proof to the contrary. And from your first line, it seems you certainly are not keeping an open mind. Toodle Ooo Martian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boojum Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Does anybody think that human consciousness was awakened by psychoactive substances? I think (and again, just an opinion so no call for anyone to take umbrage) that there's a fairly strong case for religious consciousness having been awakened by psychoactive substances - I'm certain that was I a 'primitive' human thousands of years ago who'd just experienced what I posted above I'd probably have invented some deity to explain it all to myself on the comedown. That's ultimately what I think Gods are, a method by which people can explain the unexplainable, because if there's one thing people always NEED to know it's why ? The Gods of weather, volcanoes, the sea, crops, the seasons etc no longer exist in the mind of most 'modern' humans because science has explained how they all work, without the need for Gods. I am fairly sure that at some point science will also explain how the universe was created (without the need for a God) too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambium Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 That is where I was going with it. It seems logical to me that there was a lot of experimentation, just look at some of the rituals that exist in modern day "primitive" tribes. Although some seem to have abandoned looking for an all encompassing God answer, in favour of a more earth based spiritual experience. This has surely developed over time. If we did not have the knowledge that we have today, I am sure that I would be searching for the answer in the Heavens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gen131 Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 booj you could be right. science may yet find the key to eternal life. and we may all die in oblivion do you hope in science. what good has science brought in the past. just quiet questions. just brain storming not arguing. respect. gen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martian Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 People keep talking about space and planets and bangs....... where did it all come from though? did a planet just form from thin air, sounds likely that all these planets appeared from a bang... i mean what are the chances an eclipse would happen coming from a big bang, i mean think about the suns distance from the moon but it managers to block the whole sunlight.... Its crazy Hi All. Your getting a little thrown off your thinking M8, the big bang, and planets are a number of order of magnitudes separate, and I think it may be muddying your thinking. Forget what you think you know about "what something is", its only what it seems to us at a macro level, for us to be able to survive and live. When you knock your knuckles anto a table, it seems solid, after all it stops your hand dead, but thats only how it seems to us, it is actually just a conglomeration of atoms, (as is your hand, and the rest of you, and everything else in the universe that is classed as matter). SO any matter, (the everything that you talk of) is made of atoms, but what are atoms made of??? OK all atoms are made up of different combinations of electrons, protons, and neutrons, (except Hydrogen, witch is just an electron and a proton), without going into detail, the nucleus in the centre is made up of a number of protons and neutrons, with a number of electrons orbiting them, BUT when you look at the size of the nucleus, and the size of an electron, and then you look at the size of the actual orbit, if you imagine the nucleus as the size of a basketball, then the electron would be smaller than a marble, BUT the orbit that the electron/s takes around the nucleus would be like a diameter of 10 miles, now all this atom, (that is 10 miles across) is regarded as the atom, and the atoms sit next to each other, (so the nucleus's are 10 miles apart, with the electrons whizzing around there respective nucleus's). Now when we look at what makes up an electron, proton and neutron, (we can't really LOOK, we have to split atoms and see what comes out, also a lot is theoretical), we have a number of other things that make those up. So What to us SEEMS physical and solid, is really just a descending hierarchy of emptiness. Also when one realises that matter is also merely energy in a "frozen" state. The question, "where does it all come from" is moot, because what we perceive as "everything" is really nothing, or at least is very very very little, it just seems that way to us. Or thats the way I see it!!!!! Sorry if I explained it badly, but its quite hard to condense. Toodle Pip. Martian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boojum Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 (edited) booj you could be right. science may yet find the key to eternal life. and we may all die in oblivion do you hope in science. what good has science brought in the past. just quiet questions.just brain storming not arguing. respect. gen I'd say that science merely finds out how things work. The knowledge of how the weather cycle works, what tectonic plates are, how the moon creates tides, why there are seasons etc is just knowledge. Knowledge in and of itself is just information, it's what humanity does with that knowledge that is 'good' or 'bad'. Knowing how to split the atom wasn't bad, knowledge has no morality. Using the knowledge to make a bomb, that was bad but the morality is in the application of the knowledge, not the knowledge itself. I'd counter your question with the question what good has religion brought in the past ? Again, not arguing, merely discussing Edited January 14, 2009 by Boojum 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scraglor Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 consciousness doesn't exist in the physical world though, can science ever explain that? i don't think so personally, there's no way to measure a thought, of course you can measure the chemical reactions etc that occur when a thought is produced, but that's not the same thing. if thought can be measured/exist physically then no single one of us has free will, as we are a mere production of our surroundings, not just our physical state in time and space but our souls as well. the whole universe can only exist if there is someone/thing to experience it. we are all gods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambium Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 booj you could be right. science may yet find the key to eternal life. and we may all die in oblivion do you hope in science. what good has science brought in the past. just quiet questions.just brain storming not arguing. respect. gen I find a severe lack of hope in religion and a never ending supply of hope in scientific knowledge. Religion seems to think that it's got it sewn up. Where's the hope in that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martian Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 I remember an acid trip I took as a youth, out on a hill in the middle of nowhere around a fire with a couple of good mates (the VERY best way to take hallucinogens ). First time I had approaching a peak experience and I recall looking up at the cloudless night sky, and being hit (that's the only way to describe it, being hit, like a sledgehammer to the cerebrum) by an extended hallucination about the vastness of the universe. Before then I'd obviously known that it's big but that kinda big that's just so fucking BIG there's no room for it in your head, so you don't think about it too much. But this acid had expanded my mind so much, so to speak, that for a brief time there was something approaching sufficient room in there to contemplate the vastness of space. The overriding feelings I took away from that were awe (proper 'religious' awe, even though I did not then and still do not have any religious beliefs), utter insignificance and a kind of cosmic vertigo, to be standing on the edge of a void that to all intents and purposes for one as small, insignificant and short lived as I may as well be infinite. Pretty much couldn't speak for the rest of the trip. Had many peak experiences since then, full on ego death, a part of the universe stuff, but that first time was a pretty mindfucking experience, the first time I truly grasped even one iota of the vastness of the universe and the smallness of us. I can see why some people need to create a God to deal with it, I'm sure some folks would go mad without (I, however, am safe from that eventuality, I was already barking mad beforehand ) Hi All. WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW. I've had exactly the same experience, I too used to LOVE to go out tripping, (preferably mushrooms, but acid too), when I was younger it was one of my favourite things to do, after the Pubs had shut, or sometimes we'd miss the Pub out. We'de go out travelling for miles picking em, then go back to someones house, boil em up, have ours then decant the rest into a two litre coke bottle and go out, anyone we bumped into wede offer em some, sometimes by the time we got into our local countryside there could be up to 20 of us, more likely a dozen or so, and wede stop out round a fire, till we started to come down, or it started pissing down. Mushroom season was always one of my favourites. I can't undertand how (educated) poeple can have any truck with religion these days. There is so much natural beauty, and the universe is trully awesome, without dreaming up some God figure to make it all. And as Boojum says, it can do you good too, a good humbling and putting one in ones place is something we could all do with now and then. See Ya. Martian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father McPot Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Religion seems to think that it's got it sewn up. Where's the hope in that? Erm... don't you know? The end is near. So we fucking hope that you repent before the almighty (And he isn't in a good mood: he just spilled coffee on his new t-shirt). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambium Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Dodge them lightning bolts McPot. Personally i'll be investing in a faraday cage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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