Light Keeps Killing Timers

[ShuggieBoy]

i am just about to start growing with 2x200w envirolites, will i need a contactor!!!???

[Guest Tutu]

i am just about to start growing with 2x200w envirolites, will i need a contactor!!!???

I'd recommend it, I blew an emersion heater timer (Meant to take 5A inductive around 1.2kw) and my 2 enviro's still blew it. (Luckily I had a spare contactor and had no problems for 4 months+ on 20/4)

As to they guy who said he has 4 kids, I hope you're using digital ballasts, far, far safer. I'd still use a contactor and timer just double your contactor load to what you use (I do that anyway as an extra precaution.)

[jason5d]

I got mine from maplin it says it will do 4KW and 4.5 amps had it for

3 months - very good for £9.99

(make sure you get the high power 7 day version)

[Scribb|e]

I got mine from maplin it says it will do 4KW and 4.5 amps had it for

Those numbers are for the max. *resistive* load (like a radio), not the *inductive* one (like a HID light) - you still need a contactor!

[jumping]

Just be a matter of time then mate. Fingers crossed it doesn't end in a fire.

I agree with T R, you are using an INDUCTIVE load, which means it can create a spark and will eventuall cause the failure of anything less than rated at 20 AMPS. It's only £15 for a contactor, why risk it?

[yikyak]

Those numbers are for the max. *resistive* load (like a radio), not the *inductive* one (like a HID light) - you still need a contactor!

That's not strictly true.

The Hi-load timer from Maplin is rated for *impedance* loads up to 4 amps. Impedance is an AC resistance measure composed of capacitance and inductance vectors which must be balanced against each other. Without going into the maths, they are *vector* measures on a two dimensional plane which, with the specified type of *inductance* load, actually means that the 4 amps figure is probably slightly on the low side (the hypotenuse is longer than the adjacent after all) with regard to *inductive* tolerance.

What does this mean in practice?

It means that if you're doing any kind of serious growing, you should absolutely, definitely, unequivocally still buy a contactor or an industrial-grade (not consumer-grade) timer. If you're using a 250watts HID, however, you'll be safe. If you're using a 400W HID, you'll probably be safe, but it's really not worth the risk. Anything higher = compulsory contactors.

Note that this entire post only applies to the Hi-Load timer from Maplin.

http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?detail...803&doy=9m3

Despite being slightly wrong about this specific timer, Scribbler's right about pretty much everything else.

Note also that you can buy a multi-plug 1kW contactor from Growell for £20, and a 2kW one for £25. Cheap enough, surely?

http://www.growell.co.uk/p/0850/Eco_Techni...Contactors.html

Oh: Hi, by the way. Great forum.

yy

[yikyak]

great post yiktak, I myself know being in the industry know the relying on a contactor to operate a inferrior timer is not the way to go so I use a tork timer, I have posted pics of it int he past, it handles 40 amps , they are designed specifically for street light applications which happed to be HID lights. They are nice and heavy duty. No magnetic coils to fail.

That's a great timer, The Yank, but we tend not to see things like that over here (and, given the arm-rippingly expensive nature of the UK economy, I'd guess they'd cost at least as much as a cheap contactor + timer combo). Having said that, your timer is exactly the kind of thing I meant by "industrial grade".

[TokeNSmoke]

I use 4x 20watt flouros and have been growing with the same timer for over a year now - should I be using a contactor?

Edited March 28, 2007 by TokeNSmoke

[***MaGiC-MeRLiN***]

Anybody ever try the remote control sockets from made by Byron you can get a digital timer remote control that runs multiple sockets, and the remote goes through walls so it gets easy to shutdown in emergies etc,

rated at 3000w but regularly used them above this for long periods without problems.

I think they have somekind of quality contactor in them.

i Highly recomend them excellent bit of kit and they sell em in b & Q for about thirty quid.....you also gets a couple of dimmable sockets(300w) for house lamps etc and can can buy extra sockets on ebay or whatever

[Guest GubbleBum]

Hey does the lumatek 400w ballast put any less pressure on timers because of its slow start? Im thinking about trying my timer that says up to 400w but also says not suitable for hid lighting. Just thought maybe the digi ballasts were different.

Also what is a contacter ?

[pigshit]

Hey does the lumatek 400w ballast put any less pressure on timers because of its slow start? Im thinking about trying my timer that says up to 400w but also says not suitable for hid lighting. Just thought maybe the digi ballasts were different.

Also what is a contacter ?

it takes the load offf the timer. it has a coil in it wich u power off the timer.. it pulls shut and joins up the contacts. u can get some with loads ov circuits that go through it.

[Guest GubbleBum]

so would you recomend using my timer then? Should it be fine?

oh and btw when i plugged the ballast setup into the plug their it popped and a big blue spark. Still seemed to work fine... but scary. Should that happen? I plugged into a 5 socket extender.

Edited July 19, 2007 by GubbleBum

[scraglor]

so would you recomend using my timer then? Should it be fine?

oh and btw when i plugged the ballast setup into the plug their it popped and a big blue spark. Still seemed to work fine... but scary. Should that happen? I plugged into a 5 socket extender.

you should never plug into a socket that is switched on. turn the power off, plug in whatever, then turn the power on = no sparks

[Guest friendly electrician]

just read the last few pages. it seems we are slipping again. our lights are not resistive (ac1) or inductive (ac3) there a more problematic lighting load (ac5) which is infact internally compensated making them even worse (ac5a)

they also dont break on contact, the break as they release. ofton you will see your lights dip as this happens. its all down to where on the ac waveform you try n break the circuit. its the voltage in the coil from the collapsing field that will jump to the mains drawing the contact back with the arc, welding it shut. solid state switchs work at zero cross for this reason.

I understand its a difficult subject. phillips lighting dont understand it themselfs! and there are no international standards to help, its all about your actual location and all maths only relates to the 'on' switching as its the only constant, once you know where the substation is and the useage of the local area at the time of switching...

get something over rated.

if you can't get anything from the 420 shop that works, then let me know.

anything for £20 will let you down. there designed by peeps that dont really understand. they need to be much bigger than the stickers say. No relay is any good as the gap is to small. omron themselfs say there 20amp relay switchs more than there 30amp due to the gap size. people are not making this stuff propperly. pretending its a contactor, when it simply is not is just the tip of the iceberg.

[die-Sel]

am running a 400w using a timer from Currys, got a pack of 3 for a tenner. think am gonna pick up a Eco Switch 2 from Joolz

heres the ballast:

timer:

thoughts?

Edited August 9, 2007 by die-Sel