Limited Edition Tangy Tree

[RUFUS HOUND]

a few photos from the weekend - starting to develop a nice bit of frost which is leaving me with sticky fingers. oo-er misus

 

 

 

[RUFUS HOUND]

My new fangled EC/TDS/pH meter has taken me down the rabbit hole of testing my runoff. 

 

I wish I didnt bother, as I now have problems I didnt know I had  

Ive flushed each 7L pot with tap water @ 23'C until I had about 1 to 1.5L pass out.

I tested the runoff and I had to double check the result  - it  was sky high  

 

TDS = 4000 ppm

EC = 8000 (8.0)

pH = 5.9

 

maybe the meter is miles out, so checked out the tap water 

 

TDS = 152 ppm

EC = 305  (0.3)

pH = 8 

 

nope,  

 

Guess I better do some more flushing - which is a pain with the scrog in place 

 

The girls appear ok apart from the odd dead spot on older leaves and the very tips of a fair few but nothing that would suggest that high reading. I would have thought it would just curl up its toes there and then  

 

[Shumroom]

Why are you measuring the runoff?

 

I thought you were growing in compost.

Atb

 

 

 

[lildaveham]

Flushing plants in compost is one of the worst things you can do as it will create more problems than it solves. Just water normally with a very low strength feed and you will be fine after a few cycles then you can start to increase the feed again. 
 

Flushing like you are will start to water log your plants. 
 

[RUFUS HOUND]

@shumroom I am indeed, growing in compost. 

 

I was concerned I had over done it with the ferts and measuring run off is the only way I know to find out - unless you have another way.

As stated, they dont look to bad, although a bit to dark green (high N2?) for my liking. 

I know some say dont measure runoff in soil but seems to be common practice elsewhere. If your saying that is wrong - please elaborate

 

@lildaveham 

 

I was mindful of water logging them, so I flushed and then left them choked up over drip tray, so any excess was drained away before allowing them to soak up the moisture in the compost  before watering again. Tested with a finger in pot last night and they werent quite dry enough to water. tonight I think they will be ready.

I wanted to get the runoff EC down to something that wasnt sky high, before I started adding  neuts again.

 

Always open for some constructive criticism when reasons are given. 

 

[RUFUS HOUND]

here is what I was following from the blue lab site - not that I have the money for bluelab gear but they're a repeatable source 

In soil, the logic is the same - dilution is key to lowering your EC. Simply add pH-balanced water; in the case of growing in pots or containers, water until fully saturated and then allow to drain. You would then measure the EC of the run-off. Repeat this process; then compare the EC of the run-off with your original root zone EC reading.

When you feel confident that you've flushed out enough salts, you can either reintroduce your plants to their normal nutrient strength or a lower-strength version, depending on how high the EC was and how long your plants were affected by it. As always, if you're unsure, contact an expert.

[RUFUS HOUND]

sorry but my likes and name links arent working on chrome 

[Shumroom]

1 hour ago, RUFUS HOUND said:

water until fully saturated and then allow to drain

Not flush.

 

I don’t know if you’re just confusing terms or ?.

 

Flushing is when you run approximately 4 x the pot volume with plain water.

 

That’s what was being advised against.

 

 

But to answer your original question…

 

There’s a load of biology going on in your soil,

reacting to just one runoff reading isn’t very scientific at all.

 

What should a normal runoff be in compost??

 

Read your plants and go easy on the inputs.

 

Check out titles such as Teaming with life,

I think you can download it for free  

 

Atb

 

 

 

[lildaveham]

@RUFUS HOUND

 

Hello mate,

 

The reason I advised against flushing in compost is because as shumroom alluded to there are microorganisms within the compost doing a job to break down organic matter that then makes nutrients available to your plants roots. These can be leached out due to excess water in compost as can any mobile nutrients that are in your compost. Also roots need oxygen to be able to function and thrive so any excessive watering restricts the oxygen, this could lead to root die off due to anaerobic conditions.  
 

Just to mention also the excerpt you posted from blue labs mentions soil, unless you are growing outside in the ground you are using compost not soil. 

This may help with an explanation on that point 

I hope that’s helpful mate, we are all here to help each other reach a successful harvest of the best homegrown we can manage at the end of the day. 
 

[lildaveham]

Btw 

 

Your plants look fine and dandy and aren’t showing much toxicity if any at the moment from what I can see in the pics. Back off a wee bit on the feed and you should be golden. 

[RUFUS HOUND]

@lildaveham From what I gather, the term ""soil" is just a general  term commonly used to describe compost, peat etc I know it isn't the same) when growing weed, its an american thing, what we call soil/ earth they call "dirt"

the blue labs piece mentions soil in pots & containers I took it to mean compost, as why would you fill a pot with actual soil. Im not referring to "Living soil" either 

 

Nearly all the feed manufacturers use the term Soil bloom/ Soil grow/ Sol feeding chart etc - not meaning earth or dirt  but any medium that is not inert like coco rock-wool etc so I understand it anyway.

 

I may be using the "flush" term incorrectly @Shumroom 

I said "flush" meaning I was running just plain water through to remove salt build up, more than a normal watering but nowhere near the 90L required for my 7L pots.

 

So are we saying you cant get an accurate EC from "soil runoff"  or its not needed ?

 

Im just trying to understand and keep getting conflicting info or need to go fact from fiction hunting - if somebody says "you dont do that", I  have to ask "why not, has it been done before, what happened" cant help myself - some people are satisfied with" you just dont", I need to know what stuff does and how it does it - well stuff that interests me anyway

Cant help analysing things - cause and effect

 

anyway I made up a weak feed of 0.8EC and gave them a water

 

I tested the run off ( well I do have a shiney new meter  and a need to know if this shit works ) and its down to 2000ppm/ 4.0EC / 6.0pH so 1/2 the previous reading.

 

Tune in at the weekend I'll let you know what it is next time.

 

 

 

[RUFUS HOUND]

that wasnt a rant by the way - just tryin to explain myself and doing it badly - Im sure Im on the spectrum 

 

and thanks for the info guys - I get what you mean about waterlogging the "medium "  and flushing out all of the microbes but if the salt buildup was as high as 8.0EC do you think they would even survive? genuine question @Shumroom, @lildaveham

Edited November 23, 2023 by RUFUS HOUND

[lildaveham]

Hi @RUFUS HOUND

 

It’s all good discussion mate and what works for one won’t work for another, that’s why there is conflicting info about. 
 

If you don’t mind me saying and this is in no way a dig. You seem to have created a problem that is not really a problem by measuring the EC of your run off then reacting to this data. Measuring runoff in compost is inaccurate due to the nature of how compost works.
 

(this next bit I have taken from another thread as it explains better than I could) 

 

“Its composition is dynamic, meaning that its ionic content  varies over time due to the plants roots and biological/chemical activities within the soil. You have evaporation effects to consider as well. With soil you are basically relying on its ability to maintain equilibrium to within the plants needs... it should be self-adjusting. I would use the ec meter to measure out any feed you introduce and not worry about runoff ec.”

 

Like I say that is in no way a dig at you and how you do things it’s just an explanation of what I understand about growing in compost. If you were in coco then measuring the runoff is exactly what you would do to find out what’s going on as the medium is completely inert. 
 

like I said too your plants look great and as far as I can see they are not displaying any deficiencies or toxicity. 
 

Correct terminology is important as shown here with the use of the term “flush”, that term used to get used a hell of a lot here in the context of running a lot of plain water through pots. 

[RUFUS HOUND]

Thanks for putting up with me - like I siad, I found problems didnt even know I had 

 

I was advised on here Id overdone it with the neuts, I paniced, started testing and opened up a can of worms  

 

Cant understand how measuring EC from compost is not accurate (dynamic) and theres 100's if not 1000s of articles and videos doing just that an a lot of them are seed merchants 

I think Ive learnt to read my plants. my enviro pretty much spot on, a bit heavy on the neuts but I was increasing feed and looking for adverse effects - I couldnt see much wrong apart from the leaf tips burning.

 

[brock1]

43 minutes ago, RUFUS HOUND said:

Thanks for putting up with me - like I siad, I found problems didnt even know I had 

 

I was advised on here Id overdone it with the neuts, I paniced, started testing and opened up a can of worms  

 

Cant understand how measuring EC from compost is not accurate (dynamic) and theres 100's if not 1000s of articles and videos doing just that an a lot of them are seed merchants 

I think Ive learnt to read my plants. my enviro pretty much spot on, a bit heavy on the neuts but I was increasing feed and looking for adverse effects - I couldnt see much wrong apart from the leaf tips burning.

 

From what I understand you mean testing a plant's actual uptake of nutrients. You test before feeding & runoff but its usually done in coco or hydroponic mediums. Its a very technical way of dialing in feeds to suit individual clones. Only really good for 1 strain clone grows. 

 

Leaf tip burning is something I personally don't mind seeing just before flush. Strange thing feeding. If you over feed the go to for a lot of older growers is Epsom salt flushing for 2 weeks before just going back to the normal feed at a lower strength.