Build A Contactor/relay

[bren]

what fuses are used in the plugs to mains and timer ? one of these contactors will run a 6oohps and a m/h 250

[bren]

what fuses are used in the plugs to mains and timer ? one of these contactors will run a 6oohps and a m/h 250

[HarryBotha]

@bren: 3 amp for the timer plug, 13 amp for the power plug.

[HarryBotha]

The geezer that started this thread, "the d.o.c", hasn't been about for well over a year. So he won't mind if I have a laugh at, and criticise, his plagurism. The design plan is virtually a sentence for sentence rip-off of "Skunkaroo's". the d.o.c is forced to admit this and makes some bullshit up about 'converting it to a UK design'. Then he's forced to change it to 'components I could buy from teh shops near me'.

THIS DESIGN IS FUCKING DANGEROUS!

And all the relays that are quoted to use are likely to fail.

I'm suprised it has been left pinned without being modified or at least having a big warning put into the first post of this thread. I've seen sound input from sparks on other parts of site so why not here? In the original Overgrow thread there was an editors warning about fitting an earth, why the hell was that left out of the plagurism? So to summarise my thoughts on the faults in the design.

The concept is good, the way it has been implemented is poor.

1) You must use a design with an earth. It is so stupid not to, especially in a grow room.

2) The relays listed, so far, in this thread are likely to fail.

Anyway I'm gonna be building one and I would like to tell you some good shit...

Get the right freakin' relay

You really have to research the relay you are planning to use fully. But to save you doing that, and in keeping with the plaguristic nature of this thread I have done this. Or rather a guy called "sparkie" from another messageboard in a thread that is no longer there has. The relay you want to get is.... (drum roll)

Finder 30 Amp Industrial Power Relay - Model No. 65.31.8.230.0300

It costs about £7 (or less on ebay) and has the RS stock code: 245-2087

i have seen Herculese, Jco and Maxibright contactors all built with the same relay

Hercules claim these can handle 3kw of sodiums or halides and jco say 2.4kw dont know about maxibright.i would not go above 2kw of lights on one of these then you can put extra stuff on like flourescents or additional fans.

will easily handle 3 400s i know of someone that used to run six but his relay contacts started sticking on after 12 months

as the relay used is the same as the ones in herculese, jco and maxigrow have a look at their ratings its basically the same device in a different enclosure

I'm gonna be building one so more information to follow.

Oh yeah, did I mention. Use a freakin' earth!

[Guest RAZ]

Oh yeah, did I mention. Use a freakin' earth!

Don't use freakin FLEABAY..................

And for all those who wish to make a fan controller, you can follow these desturtions here.....

RAZ

[HarryBotha]

Another big design fault in Skunkaroo's design is the lack of cable security. The cabling must be secured to the housing. If you don't then you are taking a bit of a dangerous gamble. All you need to use are 3 cable glands which'll cost about £2.50.

Anyway. Here is my complete costing for a high power contactor that is safe and reliable. This contactor is virtually identical to various branded high power models. It uses the exact same components. It even uses the same housing as the Maxibright, Powerplant and who knows else's whose units?

This unit is rated at 30 Amps and 2-3 kw depending on who you believe/trust.

I think 2 x 1000w or 3 x 600w or 4 x 400w is a good rule of thumb. But you need to base it on exact figures from your ballasts.

So my third £20 project:

30 Amp - 2.6 kw Contactor

Finder 30 Amp Industrial Power Relay £6.39

Faston 250 Terminal Connectors £0.28

30 Amp Connector Strip £1.24

Gewiss IP56 Moulded Box £1.30

4 Way Trailing Socket £3.25

20mm Nylon Cts Gland Red - Cable 8-13mm £0.70

2 x 20mm Nylon Cts Gland Black - Cable 8-13mm £1.40

13 Amp 3 Pin Plug Fitted with 3 Amp Fuse £0.45

13 Amp 3 Pin Plug £0.36

32 Amp 4.0mm 3 Core Pvc Flex 1m £1.99

SUB-TOTAL 17.37

VAT 3.04

TOTAL £20.41

The key features that you should emulate are:

Finder 30 Amp Industrial Power Relay - Model No. 65.31.8.230.0300

30 Amp cabling throughout.

30 Amp terminal strip.

Cable glands.

You can shave about a quid off the price if you build something that 'appears' to be suitable for 10 amps. I don't think this is worth doing even if you are only running one light. It's much safer to use 30 Amp rated parts for any HID setup.

I will post the circuit diagram when I have had the design double checked by an ultra-spark.

[HarryBotha]

Maybe other people who want to help this thread and own different brands of contactors could take the cover off theirs and get a pic of the relay and give the exact specs of it i.e brand and model no. Along with the specs their unit was rated at, etc.

[HarryBotha]

Here's the approved wiring schematic.

I've copied Old Timer's illustration method. It should be easy enough to just look at it and build. (Note: It's not to scale or to exact layout).

Construction Notes:

This circuit is designed to be placed in a waterproof plastic enclosure.

The relay, terminal block and all cabling must be secured to the enclosure.

All cabling is rated at 30 amp.

The wires are connected to the relay using female (recepetacle) crimp terminals.

Finder 65.32 - 0300 Power Relay:

Rated Current: 30 Amp

Peak Current: 50 Amp

(Complete relay specs. are available in PDF at manufacturers website.)

[deanbo]

I've already got a heavy duty timer a "heavy duty Relax 30 digital timer" which has a 30 amp relay inside it.

Trouble is i don't completely trust it and whilst i'm sure it can handle a 400W HID it says it can handle 3 X 600W which seems a bit high to me[which i soon will be too ]as it's rated for a 13 amp ballasting load on the actual unit.

I've decided to make myself a contactor relay and followed the link to the maplins part but it was no longer there.I had a look about and found this at Maplins

http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?Module...95&doy=9m3&QV=P

Is that suitable ? I can't buy online or over the phone[no cards]but i have the cash and there's a Maplins not far away and i can check if it's in stock if it's OK.

It's a real shame those pics got lost earlier in the thread as it was just what i needed,but if it is OK will i need the DIN rails thing for connection ?they sell that too apparently @ Maplins so i could get all i need with 1 visit.

It's just plugs,wire and relay[connection too]isn't it ?

[Uglykittens]

alright harry brotha,

I've successfully run 3 of your design of contactor and came on here to post how bad an idea the original was.

Because i sold a few to electrically inept mates, i've put them all in ip65 box's with cable glands. I wrote appallingly offensive stuff on the inner lid of the case, so if any of them did open it, i'd hear how they were shocked at what i'd written.

If its worth doing, its worth doing right.

PS the relay you've used is the same as the one i used, was coping with about 1500w's of loading but still made one timer fail (shitty timer).

I can get some pics of my set up if anyone wants? p.s. i didn't copy your idea and sell it, i'm an electronic engineer by trade!

Edited April 16, 2006 by Uglykittens

[chewitts]

I can get some pics of my set up if anyone wants? p.s. i didn't copy your idea and sell it, i'm an electronic engineer by trade!

i could do with a few pics Uglykittens

any other info you have or links you could add would be great!!

[DanKBudZ]

great guide man... my flatmates a sparky, and he did something pretty much identical to ur guide here... but he got a 26amp relay switch from an electrical supply store where we live...

it only cost him £20 for everything he needed... the local grow shop is charging £110 for a 25amp contactor that looks the exact same as the thing my flatmate made!!!

[Guest friendly electrician]

two light switchgear:

this is a contactor

http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSearch/pa...jsp?SKU=MC01064

it is what people pretend to sell you. In reality you get a relay that finders (the manufacturer) themselfs don't recomend using.

as you can see there is a small diagram on the front. it looks like this:-

As you can see, ive added to the drawing, showing the entire circuit im about to detail.

the 10 terminals are numbered as on the device.

your timer connects to terminals A1&A2 to power the electromagnet.

to the left of the magnet, are 4 individual switchs, each sectioned off by flash gaurds indicated by the light grey dotted lines(which are mostly missing since i converted to jpeg, doh!). there are three main switchs, and a fourth auxilary switch numbered 12&14. It performs the same function, but at a lower power. I have sprayed it pink to highlight its girlyness. Were only interested in the main 3 switchs, of which we will use two.

when the magnet is switched on, the 4 green lines travel towards it until they bridge there asociated contacts. when the magnet is switched off, an unshown spring opens the switchs again.

the easyest wiring method would be to by the timer lead ready assembled, and just screw it on.

http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSearch/pa...jsp?SKU=PL09566

or chop a lead of something thats broken.

the 4way looks like a nightmare of parts, but is infact a complete lead, just chopped in half.

both the live and the neutral have been led through the contactor to get switched. The earth however should not be switched so there was no need to cut it. however, its easyer to chop the lot, then use a 'spare' terminal on the contactor to join them up again.

http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSearch/pa...jsp?SKU=CS12264

^ token gesture. very pricey.

thats all you need. but a box would be nice.

this one has knockouts. the round bits are easy to remove with a knife, which is handy if your short on tools.

http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSearch/pa...jsp?SKU=EN81277

thats a tad large, you can get this smaller one, but there's no pic

http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSearch/pa...jsp?SKU=EN81278

(you could get a box for £2 but that would mean chopping holes in it. you could also get one for about £4 with cable grips, but you can find them ones, im going with shower proof parts.)

now you just need some cable glands to bung up them holes where your cables enter the box.

http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSearch/pa...jsp?SKU=CB02116

but dont forget you need 3! (if you get your 4way from B&Q then get glands from there also. there about 85p a pair. also get a 3amp fuse for that timer lead)

edit: don't be fooled by the higher ac3 rating of relays half the price. your not switching an inductive load. compensated lighting is ac5a and mixed reactive loads are ac15. contactors carry such ratings, relays dont.

if you require a bit more switching capacity, then bear in mind that you didn't need to switch the neutral. its just switched as 'you might aswell'. If you didn't switch the neutral, you would only be using 1 of the 3 main switchs. So, you could stick a couple more 4ways through it.

if you want more, but not more extensions, then adapt the design to use a bigger contactor(a 7.5kw one is indestructable unless you tin-foil the fuses). all contactors have the same terminal numbers. A1&A2 are usually on the side, not the top, but there all the same. just the auxilary type changes on some, but were not using that bit, just dont be surprised if 12&14 become some other numbers to signify a different duty. Be sure the coil is the 240v variety as well!

Edited September 7, 2006 by oldtimer1

[Guest friendly electrician]

hay! someones stolen the edit button! :wink:

when you call, have part numbers ready. they will ask about account, just say its for you not work, your going to pay by debit card.

[toke-toke]

No offence to you electrically minded ppl.

BUT... Wouldn't it be much easier and less hassle (and peace of mind that your house wont burn down whilst your out) to just buy one already made that meats british safety standards ???

Toke :wink:

They are only about 30-40 quid anyway (I know I'd rather pay this price than risk an electrical fire).