Accessible CO2 from sugar beer yeast and bananas (which works)

[Strangelove]

 

Good evening to all (fellow hiders ; ), I've just started growing again after 10 years, and I've got some brand new gear, and I'm lucky enough to have (this time) a Hyve 480W ramp

It works great, but you quickly run into the CO2 problem (if all other factors are OK)

 

The problem is that at 560/620 µmol/m2/s, well around 27.2 DLI, you need CO2 otherwise you can't go beyond that, and the graph by Beuze H, indicates that you can go up to 38 DLI with CO2

 

NB. i have been able to upload the image to my gallery, but i'm unable to insert it in post because i dont have the option 'my media'

 

 

 

 

 

(if all the other factors follow, light, water, nutrients, etc.)

 

I've seen some scientific videos provided by forum member, cannabis LOVES light, but all the other elements have to be at their peak.

 

 

 So I've been looking into the thing and seeing I don't have (more) 150€ for a CO2 bottle and holder at the moment, let alone 750€ for a Eurotechnics CO2 kit.

I saw that a guy had stopped buying CO2 bottles because he was fermenting beer and he was getting 1440 ppm (This made me curious)

 

 

 
Because if you calculate if you need 49g of CO2 per cycle for a 1M2 tent to get to 900/1000 ppm, well, 50g x 6 = 300g of CO2! (I could be wrong, that's what I read on the internet from memory), but the CO2 bottles are from 3kg to 10kg

 
But when you think about it, at 300g a day, 3kg is not much of a reserve, not to mention that you have to go to the shop, carry the bottle, etc. Anyway

So fermentation, even if it's a bit restrictive and 'artisanal' (you have to stir the bucket every day and keep an eye on it), but (for a 1.2m2 tent) it's a real low cost option (I think)

 
For the rest, I also saw that a high heat of 28°/34° was needed, that I think the good Lord should bring it to us in a few weeks or months ; ))), for my part :

 

1/ The intra and extra draw and reject the air outside the room.
2/ I did my best to seal the BOX which is already well designed. (it is a Home Box)
3/ CO2 being heavier than air, I use a FAN P which is under the aeroflo (the hydro system) and send back the gases (CO2) to the plants, that work well.

 

 

 

 

4/ I have a super device to disperse the CO2 from my ramp, but there is not enough pressure with the bucket (in my opinion) so it's a simple hose that sends the gas to the plants (I only have 2 plants that are doing well, they are in flo + 5 weeks)

 

 

 

4/ I don't know how long the mixture will work before there is too much alcohol (25%) or more sugar (so to work on, a bit of an artistic 'blur' there)

 

So the gear,

 

1 Fermentation Bucket - Homebrewing (6.2L Fermentation Bucket - Airtight with Pierced Lid, Bubbler, Insulator and Graduations) 6,90 € on Amazon

 

2/ A bit of tubing (2M) to go to the ramp, diameter 6mn (preferably silicone because of the CO2, but it costs an arm and a leg, personally I had to buy it in Spain for my ramp device, but for the bucket experiment it's a crappy plastic aquarium tubing)
 

3/ An aquarium air pump

 

4/ Two timers (I advise mechanical ones, even if they are less precise)

 

To make the system, I was inspired by this video and another one.

 

 

The DIY is as follows pump to bucket with hose and non-return valve (optional, but I ordered it), all connected to TIMER 2

The TIMER 1 will be for the intra and extra which must be cut off when injecting CO2 (as for the bottles)

 

 

 

I advise you to lower the tube of the bubbler to the limit of the slack (the mixture) to draw the CO2 of the fermentation (which will be expelled with the pressure of the bubbler), attention I think of a system of 'float' because if the tube is immersed in the foam or the mixture, the bubbler is going mechanically to send you the slack in the tube, and that would be a pity to have banana puke on your beautiful plants ; ), then to meditate & to tinker with)

 

 

 

The goal is to stop the intra and extra, send air into the bucket via the bubbler, expel the CO2 mechanically to the plants, pause for 15min and start the CO2 injection again, and then drain the air from the box for 15min all this over an hour and repeat the cycle during the whole lighting phase.

 

For the mixture I put 2L of tap water (at 25°), 3 sliced bananas + 1 1/2 banana peel, I saw that for the 'soft' beer the peels and grapes were used (bacteria support I think).

 

To make it all react, I used brewer's yeast:

 

Brewferm Top 6 g (don't buy on amazon it's sold there for 7€50 while here you get it for 1€65 and also per 100g 10€)

 

 

 

Instructions: Pour into 50ml of water at 25° and leave to rehydrate for 10 minutes, stir and add to the softness (the mixture)

 

I was a bit strong, but I put the 6g in the 2L of slurry directly, then added 100g of powdered sugar, and mixed it with a spatula to 'crush the bananas' in part to make the mixture which will serve as 'food' for the bacteria which in turn will provide the CO2 during fermentation.

You add a little water to the bubbler to see the CO2 pass through, pierce the cap and put the rest of your pipe in.

 

Shake the whole thing firmly and let it stand.

 

On the lid of the bucket and on the cap, where you made the holes to insert the tubes, it would be good to seal with silicone ; )

 

Then it is up to you to dispense your precious CO2 ; ) (the reaction starts in a few hours)

 

In my house the sun rises at 7pm ; ) I let everyone wake up for 1 hour and we start the CO2 cycles.

         TIMER 1        TIMER 2

20h00 FAN OFF       CO2 ON
20:15                     CO2 STOP (15 min break for fermentation)
20h30                    CO2 START
20h45 FAN ON        CO2 STOP (15 min pause for diffusion & fermentation)

21h00 FAN OFF      CO2 ON
21:15                    CO2 STOP (15 min break for fermentation)
21:30                    CO2 START
21h45 FAN ON        CO2 STOP (15 min break for diffusion & fermentation)

 

.../...

 

Loop until 7:00am when we go back to a normal cycle for the fans, and CO2 stopped.

 

For my part I have a wifi video camera in the box, and a CO2 sensor and of course a Hydro & Temp sensor, the hydro is high, but the device is not far from the water tank)

With this little device, I could measure and watch 'in vivo' how the system was behaving, I didn't see to physically check each time the functioning of the devices, because my office is on the 2nd floor, it was at night and I have neighbours sleeping next door, and the staircase is creaking)

 

 

 

Anyway, I did what I could, but it should enlighten you, get crazy result, , with a maximum of 1945 ppm of CO2 !

If we average 850 ppm, we arrive at an 'acceptable' max DLI of 37.72, which is enormous! (+10) and in phase with our MAX needs! YES!

 

 

 

 

 

But as I said, I don't know how long the reaction will take, they say 1 week for the main fermentation and 1 week for the secondary fermentation but it seems to produce less CO2.

 

I put my logs from the frst test (I can't do better)

 

And I confirm, 2 day later it's still working, the moss seems to have improved and I'm at 1945 ppm of CO2....

 

I'll update the thread as I get more info.

 

Good culture to all of you,

 

Best wishes,

 

s.

0h34 CO2 : 1288 : TEMP 25.1 HYDRO 78% - START
0h50 CO2: 515: TEMP 24.2 HYDRO 62% - START
0h58 CO2 : 820 : TEMP 24.2 HYDRO 75% - START
1h11 CO2 : 1071 : TEMP 25.4 HYDRO 86
1h25 CO2 : 953 : TEMP 26.2 HYDRO 90% 1h35 CO2 : 1105
1h35 CO2 : 1105 : TEMP 26.4 HYDRO 90% - LOG
1h38 CO2 : 928 : TEMP 26.1 HYDRO 84% FAN ON -------------- 15 Mn
1h45 CO2 : 488 : TEMP 25.1 HYDRO 64
1h52 CO2 : 523 : TEMP 24.5 HYDRO 63% FAN OFF
1h59 CO2 : 857 : TEMP 24.8 HYDRO 75% CO2 ON for 1 or 2 mn already
2h04 CO2 : 1089 : TEMP 25.1 HYDRO 81% CO2 will stop soon and resume in 15mn
2h13 CO2 : 1179 : TEMP 25.4 HYDRO 85% the CO2 must be stopped and the FANs are OFF pause 15mn
2h18 CO2: 1019 : TEMP 25.5 HYDRO 86% break 15 min CO2 goes down slowly (bucket recharges), CO2 = OFF, temperature also goes up.
2h22 CO2: 836: TEMP 25.5 HYDRO 82%.
2h25 CO2 : 652 : TEMP 25.3 HYDRO 72% FAN ON ............... 15 Mn
2h28 CO2 : 521 : TEMP 24.9 HYDRO 64
2h32 CO2 : 507 : TEMP 24.5 HYDRO 63% FAN will soon stop temperature drops CO2 too, CO2 = OFF
2h36 CO2 : 507 : TEMP 24.3 HYDRO 62% Temperature still falling so FAN = ON
2h43 CO2 : 625 : TEMP 24.4 HYDRO 72% FAN = OFF / CO2 = OFF (physically confimed)
2H46 CO2 : 665 : TEMP 24.7 HYDRO 77
2h55 CO2 : 761 : TEMP 25.4 HYDRO 85% CO2 = ON (physically confirmed) FAN = OFF  
2h58 CO2 : 920 : TEMP 25.5 HYDRO 86% CO2 for 15mn, then pause 15mn, and re-CO2 15mn, then Fan (I can't set better cf. 15mn step)
3h00 CO2: 1054: TEMP 25.7 HYDRO 87%.
3h03 CO2: 1149: TEMP 25.9 HYDRO 88% CO2 still rising, another 7mn

3:08 CO2: 1090: TEMP 25.9 HYDRO 86% CO2 goes down, I deduce CO2 = OFF, the Fans will not delay either to empty the box.
3h10 CO2 : 878 : TEMP 25.7 HYDRO 77% Temperature goes down confirming FAN = ON
3h13 CO2: 542: TEMP 25.3 HYDRO 69%.
3h15 CO2 : 612 : TEMP 25.1 HYDRO 67% FAN still ON but will switch off
3h17 CO2 : 515 : TEMP 24.9 HYDRO 65% temperature continues to drop so FAN = ON
3h24 CO2 : 521 : TEMP 24.4 HYDRO 66% FAN must stop in 1mn
3:26 CO2 : 601 : TEMP 24.4 HYDRO 70% CO2 rise FAN must be OFF now and CO2 = ON
3:30 CO2: 910: TEMP 24.7 HYDRO 76% FAN must be OFF now
3:34 CO2: 1105: TEMP 25.1 HYDRO 81% CO2 rises another 6mn then pause 15mn  
3h37 CO2: 1174: TEMP 25.2 HYDRO 83%.
3h40 CO2 : 1209 : TEMP 25.4 HYDRO 84% CO2 will go OFF then pause 15mn
3h43 CO2 : 1171 : TEMP 25.6 HYDRO 86% CO2 = OFF, FAN = OFF (physically confirmed)
3h46 CO2 : 1083 : TEMP 25.8 HYDRO 87% The FANs will soon switch ON to drain 15mn
3h49 CO2 : 980 : TEMP 25.9 HYDRO 87% temperature continues to rise so FAN still OFF
3h52 CO2 : 868 : TEMP 25.9 HYDRO 86% fan ON (Hydro and CO2 go down strongly)
3h54 CO2 : 733 : TEMP 25.7 HYDRO 79% (Hydro and CO2 go down)
3h57 CO2 : 603 : TEMP 25.4 HYDRO 71% drain air box 15mn CO2 goes down, temperature also.
3h59 CO2: 500: TEMP 25.0 HYDRO 65%.
4h02 CO2 : 507 : TEMP 24.7 HYDRO 63% FAN ON again 5mn
4h07 CO2 : 524 : TEMP 24.2 HYDRO 59

4h10 CO2 : 565 : TEMP 24.1 HYDRO 60% CO2=ON / FAN=OFF
4h13 CO2 : 685 : TEMP 24.1 HYDRO 68% confirmation CO2=ON / FAN=OFF
4h20 CO2 : 745 : TEMP 24.5 HYDRO 77% confirmation
4h23 CO2 : 758 : TEMP 24.9 HYDRO 80% CO2 Still ON should stop in 2 mn, then pause 15mn and ON again
4h25 CO2: 791: TEMP 25.1 HYDRO 81%.
4h26 CO2: 881: TEMP 25.2 HYDRO 82%.
4h28 CO2 : 977 : TEMP 25.3 HYDRO 83% 4h31 CO2 : 1117
4h31 CO2 : 1117 : TEMP 25.5 HYDRO 85% CO2 continues to rise but I can't physically check
4:34 CO2: 1164: TEMP 25.6 HYDRO 85%.
4h37 CO2 : 1233 : TEMP 25.7 HYDRO 85% CO2 goes up, FANs will soon drain
4h38 CO2 : 1165 : TEMP 25.6 HYDRO 82% Hydro and temperature goes down FAN = ON Drain box 15mn
4h43 CO2 : 611 : TEMP 25.0 HYDRO 60% 4h44
4h44 CO2 : 510 : TEMP 24.8 HYDRO 59% 4h47 CO2 : 507 : TEMP 25.0 HYDRO
4h47 CO2 : 507 : TEMP 24.4 HYDRO 57% FAN still ON
4h50 CO2 : 507 : TEMP 24.1 HYDRO 56% FAN still ON
4h52 CO2 : 528 : TEMP 23.9 HYDRO 55% Temperature and Hydro go down FAN = ON will soon stop then CO2 = ON
4h55 CO2 : 521 : TEMP 23.7 HYDRO 55%
4h56 CO2 : 545 : TEMP 23.7 HYDRO 56% FAN = OFF / CO2 = ON
4h59 CO2 : 758 : TEMP 23.7 HYDRO 64
5h02 CO2 : 988 : TEMP 23.8 HYDRO 69% 5h04 CO2 : 1117 : TEMP 23.7 HYDRO
5h04 CO2 : 1117 : TEMP 24.0 HYDRO 72%
5h07 CO2 : 1225 : TEMP 24.2 HYDRO 74
5h09 CO2 : 1297 : TEMP 24.2 HYDRO 76% 5h10

5h12 CO2 : 1361 : TEMP 24.5 HYDRO 78%
5h19 CO2 : 1107 : TEMP 24.9 HYDRO 81% CO2 OFF = 15 mn
5h24 CO2 : 781 : TEMP 25.0 HYDRO 72% FAN = ON

 

That's it, end of the test for today, tonight we were at 1945, as I told you the wort must have improved.

 

 

 

Edited June 8, 2021 by Dodgee
Remove links and pic links. Please read the site rules regarding posting links and upload image to a gallery here to use in posts. Thanks Admin.

[Boojum]

surely if you've got the right extraction it gets rid of the stale air and replenishes the carbon dioxide. If you've got the right extraction then using carbon dioxide generators is a waste of time, cos the extraction will blow out any added carbon dioxide too I guess you could have an enclosed grow space and put some kind of carbon dioxide generator in it, but that just seems overegging the pudding, constant air flow to get rid of the used air and draw more in seems to work fine

[Strangelove]

hi boojum, intra and extra are off, when injecting CO2 ; ), the fan start at the end of the CO2 injection session to empty the box,

 

[Boojum]

Just now, Strangelove said:

hi boojum, intra and extra are off, when injecting CO2 ; ), the fan start at the end of the CO2 injection session to empty the box,

 

 

 

Fair do's man.

 

Forgive me, I'm a terrible grower.

 

Can plants utilise the extra carbon dioxide, or do they have a threshold of how much they use ? (genuine question cos I really don't know)

[Strangelove]

Your'e welcome, no prob, there is a treshold its in the post, but you need to have extra CO2 to get the max of it

 

 

 

Edited June 8, 2021 by Dodgee
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[OneMorePuff]

This seems fascinating.  I have a similar watt draw LED to yours, so this has caught my attention.

 

3 minutes ago, Strangelove said:

hi boojum, intra and extra are off, when injecting CO2 ; ), the fan start at the end of the CO2 injection session to empty the box,

 

 

How long do you keep the air exchange switched off for?  I'd be deeply concerned about RH and mould issues, particularly 5 weeks into flower.  I feel like I wouldn't want that extraction off for long at all, and as soon as I'm done 'injecting' the C02, I'd want the extraction straight back on to get the fresh air exchange going, which would then clear all that CO2 you've just taken the time to fill the tent with.  All the other CO2 enriched grow systems I've seen run 'closed room' systems for this reason, which from what I've seen is a whole other kettle of fish and gets rather complicated rather quickly.

 

Perhaps I'm missing something?

[Strangelove]

@OneMorePuff the system is described bellow

 

 TIMER 1                TIMER 2

20h00 FAN OFF       CO2 ON
20:15                     CO2 STOP (15 min break for fermentation)
20h30                    CO2 START
20h45 FAN ON        CO2 STOP (15 min pause for diffusion & fermentation)

21h00 FAN OFF      CO2 ON
21:15                    CO2 STOP (15 min break for fermentation)
21:30                    CO2 START
21h45 FAN ON        CO2 STOP (15 min break for diffusion & fermentation)

 

The complete CO2 cycle is of 45mn, then the fan blow the air outside the box, i have a dehumidifier

 

 

 

[Keye]

Just, straight off the bat, my CO2 bottle is 15.6kg full, about 9kg of CO2 topped off. It's about £12 or something for a refill. 

 

I need to read more; I don't know enough about the detail in the first post to comment really.

I also have beer brewing... I just wouldn't want the mess near a grow and I find it really hard to see that it could create enough CO2 to even begin matching the output of a tank.

 

When I change my beer keg over, I bet I lose more CO2 out the valve than 23ltrs makes brewing to 5.5% in day. 

[Strangelove]

hi @Keye

 

check this ; )

 

 

 

Edited June 8, 2021 by Dodgee
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[OneMorePuff]

Just now, Strangelove said:

@OneMorePuff the system is described bellow

 

 TIMER 1                TIMER 2

20h00 FAN OFF       CO2 ON
20:15                     CO2 STOP (15 min break for fermentation)
20h30                    CO2 START
20h45 FAN ON        CO2 STOP (15 min pause for diffusion & fermentation)

21h00 FAN OFF      CO2 ON
21:15                    CO2 STOP (15 min break for fermentation)
21:30                    CO2 START
21h45 FAN ON        CO2 STOP (15 min break for diffusion & fermentation)

 

The complete CO2 cycle is of 45mn, then the fan blow the air outside the box, i have a dehumidifier

 

 

 

 

 

Ah ok.  I can see 45 minutes with no air exchange each day being totally manageable without mould/RH issues, but that brings me to the flipside of the same issue, what makes you think the plants can make use of the necessary CO2 in that short 45 minute window, considering it's all gone the moment you turn the extraction back on?  My assumption would be that however enriched the air is with CO2, they can only consume X amount per hour, and would need a steady supply of CO2 enriched air throughout the day to make any significant difference? 

 

I apologise if you've already covered this again in your first post, it's a bit of a mammoth one so I could have missed it.

 

[Keye]

@Strangelove hmmm, ok, I think those numbers are exaggerated; or at least taken to the extreme. I don't know where they're getting their CO2 from, but it's expensive and I'm truly surprised at the CO2 output. They're not brewing IPA with TurboYeast, for sure, so whoever is putting the pictures isn't quite chiming with the text. 

 

I'm not sure plants grow towards CO2... not heard that before at all. Light, yes, CO2, not sure.

 

It sounds great, but I've seen 10gal of IPA brew to 5.5%, I'm looking at one now. It's been bubbling for 4 days and tiny bits of CO2 are coming out. I'll have to buy a meter! Not convinced.

[Keye]

The video on light is interesting!

[Strangelove]

hi one more puff in fact i have 11 cycle of CO2 trougth the nigth (day for plant), each cycle is of 1h, 45 mn CO2, 15 mn, empty box, then loop 

its the same kind of schedule for professional CO2 with tank

Edited June 8, 2021 by Strangelove

[Saddam]

I like it when noobs with pictures of shit plants decide to post spam links, off-site hosted images and YouTube videos proclaiming new ways of growing weed in 95% humidity.     

 

JACOB - Just Another Cunt On Block.  

[Personunknown]

Suppose we all start somewhere, co2 interested me once ,but far too expensive a set up if unlucky enough to get a knock,(think commecial ) (sp?) would have to be a seald grow to be worth it i think, seen/ heard of having a brew on in the same room to add some co2 ,but doubt it makes a huge difference really ?

Edited June 8, 2021 by Personunknown