Inkbird Environment Control Automation - VPD Made Easy!

[NezA]

Hey @Stardawg909

 

I am not sure what would happen when running 2 independent environment controllers in the same space. I think it'd go one of 2 ways either everything will be super stable or the 2 controllers will end up conflicting with eachother and trying to undo the work that is being done by the other. I think the first scenario is probably more likely though. But if you end up with the second scenario, the parameters available on the inkbird should still allow you to dial everything in though, but it'll take a bit of tinkering.

 

You definitely want more humidity if you can manage it in veg 50% is fine but the difference in the plants was very noticeable to me following the VPD chart. It would be in the mid to high 60's at the temps I was setting and the root growth was insane! I had roots occupying every spare mm of space in my pots all the way to the soil surface I've never see that before. Check my diary/gallery for pictures of the roots.

 

I'm vegging my cuttings up in a separate tent when the environment isn't controlled (everything is just dialed to have acceptable temp and humidity) and whilst they're perfectly fine they just don't have the same vigor that I saw at the start of my current run. The difference in the roots is particularly noticeable.

 

If you can invest in some extra humidification to get to the optimal range you will notice the difference I promise you. I'm not sure on the size of your space but I run a mini ultrasonic fogger (~£10 from fleabay) in the biggest open top res I could fit in a 0.9 X 0.9 X 1.85 space and it does the job very nicely. This has some disadvantages the res will grow algae after a week or so (sooner if you spill nutes in it when feeding the ladies) and requires cleaning, and you can't direct where the the humidity goes. I just have my circulation fan directed so that it blows over the top of the res this causes enough turbulence to kick the mist up nicely. Again I'm very much budget conscious and for the money it's a great solution.

 

Be sure to report back once you have everything setup. Like you say even just being able to monitor and manually adjust things from a distance is a wonderful feature and probably worth the £90 all by itself. But the automation options are the icing on the cake.

[Stardawg909]

7 hours ago, NezA said:

Hey @Stardawg909

 

I am not sure what would happen when running 2 independent environment controllers in the same space. I think it'd go one of 2 ways either everything will be super stable or the 2 controllers will end up conflicting with eachother and trying to undo the work that is being done by the other. I think the first scenario is probably more likely though. But if you end up with the second scenario, the parameters available on the inkbird should still allow you to dial everything in though, but it'll take a bit of tinkering.

 

You definitely want more humidity if you can manage it in veg 50% is fine but the difference in the plants was very noticeable to me following the VPD chart. It would be in the mid to high 60's at the temps I was setting and the root growth was insane! I had roots occupying every spare mm of space in my pots all the way to the soil surface I've never see that before. Check my diary/gallery for pictures of the roots.

 

I'm vegging my cuttings up in a separate tent when the environment isn't controlled (everything is just dialed to have acceptable temp and humidity) and whilst they're perfectly fine they just don't have the same vigor that I saw at the start of my current run. The difference in the roots is particularly noticeable.

 

If you can invest in some extra humidification to get to the optimal range you will notice the difference I promise you. I'm not sure on the size of your space but I run a mini ultrasonic fogger (~£10 from fleabay) in the biggest open top res I could fit in a 0.9 X 0.9 X 1.85 space and it does the job very nicely. This has some disadvantages the res will grow algae after a week or so (sooner if you spill nutes in it when feeding the ladies) and requires cleaning, and you can't direct where the the humidity goes. I just have my circulation fan directed so that it blows over the top of the res this causes enough turbulence to kick the mist up nicely. Again I'm very much budget conscious and for the money it's a great solution.

 

Be sure to report back once you have everything setup. Like you say even just being able to monitor and manually adjust things from a distance is a wonderful feature and probably worth the £90 all by itself. But the automation options are the icing on the cake.

Cheers for the reply mate, it's coming tmoz so I'll be setting it up then, I think I'll leave my controller as it is then and just have this set up to the oil rad as the settings on WiFi seem to come on when they like although if I do it manually it comes straight on away Im not sure why though, Deffo worth it for the dehumidifier when I use it and the heater at lights out tho and an extra kick with lights on if it ever goes below 23 I hope it works well, I think I may get a bigger humidifier next grow too I always buy something new each time I do a new one so that may be the one. My space is 1.2 wide and 2.4 long I do the same with with circulation fan with the humidifier too but it's a ram 5 liter and seems not to get above 50 so could do with a big one I think. 

[BushDoctoR]

On 03/01/2021 at 2:12 PM, Benjic93 said:

 

On 03/01/2021 at 2:12 PM, Benjic93 said:

Really appreciate that thankyou. Wouldn't want you going out your way though man. Would you recommend Td for stealth then? If on low are they quiet but able to pull enough air? I'm debating the TD or hyperfan stealth v2 OR cloudline t4/s4 

 

My 6" hyperfan stealth v1 has been playing up so I've had to send it back, and I've had to temporarily borrow the 4" TD. Despite being smaller its holding up quite well in place of the hyperfan but I dont need much power atm due to the cold.

 

I've actually hooked it up to the inkbird that controls root temps today as it was a little too powerful on full speed. The setup is not ideal as the probe is in the root zone but it is just a temp fix.

 

I've uploaded a couple of circuits. The relay setup is what I've installed today. The coil of the relay could be controlled via an inkbird or alternatively by a timer to switch between high and low with your lights being on and off. 

I've also uploaded a simple hi/low switch that uses a basic light switch.

 

In addition to the wiring shown, you would also need to join all earths up and earth the box you house them in if its metal.

 

The relay in the drawing is a pretty standard relay but the terminals can vary from unit to unit, I can modify it if you use a different relay. The important thing is to choose a relay that uses 230v to power the coil.

 

[Image in post below]

 

Basic hi/lo switch using 2 way light switch:

For the N terminal just use a single terminal block and house it within the switch back box

 

[Image in post below]

 

This is what I built today (the bits on the DIN rail below the 3 LED drivers). Dont be put off by the DIN rail terminals, I just used those as I can nick them from work, regular terminal strip will do fine to join the N and earth. This should really be contained but I didnt bother as it's just a temp fix. 

[Image in post below]

Edited January 8, 2021 by BushDoctoR
shite images removed

[BushDoctoR]

Images for above post. Putting them in a seperate post as the forum software is an absolute nightmare on my phone

 

Relay circuit:

 

Basic hi/lo switch

 

 

Today's work

 

 

[superfruit]

Go on then @NezA you've convinced me. Just ordered both wifi units.

 

I ran 24/0 lighting last run but this time I want to try 20/0 and give the autos some time relax especially while growing a purple strain.

 

My setup is pretty simple:

 

4" rvk

250w hps

2 oscillating fans

Humidier 

Heat mat and thermostat

500w oil rad

 

May be a little overkill but I spent so many hours on my first grow crawling on my knees under the house tweaking humidifer settings and fan speeds to keep the temp and rh right. 

 

Hoping this kit will reduce some of the chore.

 

I won't have the dehumidifier or cooling connected right away but at least this gear will be handy for turning the humidier on/off and oil rad during lights out.

 

My soil is always around 24c thanks to the RootIt, but unless I control an oil rad at lights out my ambient temp can drop as low as 12c outside the tent, resulting in higher RH.

Edited January 16, 2021 by superfruit

[superfruit]

On 13/10/2020 at 2:19 PM, NezA said:

I placed my sensors at canopy level and far enough away from my heater and humidifier so that I'm getting an average reading rather than over indexing on any one reading. Obviously you know your grow space so make sure you're placing your probes in an appropriate location and that you're getting a good reading.

 

Hi @NezA I'm expecting a package today which will include the Inkbird equipment. I'm just wondering if you place your sensors in the shade of the canopy, or in light? I usually place my sensors to one side of the canopy out of the intensity of lights, with a fan circulating. Cheers

[NezA]

Hey @superfruit my sensors were among my canopy not quite full shade not quite full sun. They were also placed an equal distance between the sources of heat and humidity. Both sensors were placed in the same location as well. My thinking behind this is I wanted to get the best possible average reading, albeit from a very specific point. However because my space is very small with good airflow I think this approach works out well.

 

By all means experiment though what works in my space may not work in yours. For example larger spaces would probably benefit from several controllers and output devices spread throughout the grow space, in order to keep the conditions more stable and even across the entire space. I'm far from an expert here though. I'm just piecing together bits of information I've gathered from all sorts of places and coming up with an approach that I think will work.

[superfruit]

That makes a lot of sense thanks.

 

I've just downloaded the Pulse VPD spreadsheets and they're fantastic, nice resource, thanks. I'll post my findings once I've had time to play around a little!

 

I've just ordered a mains-powered PC fan which I was going to attach to the passive intake to force more cooler air into the tent when the temperature is too high though I'm not sure this is a great idea as ideally it should be solely extraction reducing temperature? Perhaps I'm over estimating how much intake this will add and positive pressure is probably unlikely. I definitely can't add more extraction, not without a second filter but that definitely feels overkill for my setup. My extraction is on a manually controlled varispeed - I guess figuring out a way of controlling that would be beneficial, that doesn't involve manual wiring

 

Edited January 20, 2021 by superfruit

[superfruit]

On 17/10/2020 at 3:48 PM, NezA said:

My table was calculated with a -1c leaf temp offset. Which is about right but I need to invest in an IR thermometer to do this properly

 

Sorry to bug you, but did you continue working with assumed values or pick up a device?

[NezA]

Still on the to buy list @superfruit I've found one on the big river site that seems reasonable and gets good reviews for about £30 so I'll be picking that up for this next run I reckon.

[mikeydoughnut]

I was just about to say an IR thermometer is pretty vital for leaf surface temps. @NezA has it covered though. Hate to feel like I’m muscling in like since it was this thread that got me on the VPD scent. It’s just what I’ve learned literally in the last week!

My IR thermometer came yesterday and wasn’t functional. Spend as much as you can on one. Buy cheap. Buy twice is my usual rule. I broke my own rule and now have to wait while tomorrow for a decent one to arrive.

While I’m here thanks @NezA for such an invaluable thread. Anyone interested in growing as best they can, environment is everything. I wouldn’t say I’m terrible at growing but I’m not very good. But bit by bit as I improve the environment the plants live in the results are plain to see. I’m a reluctant feeder so anything I see wrong now I know it’s something I’m not doing rather than owt else. 

Edited January 20, 2021 by mikeydoughnut

[superfruit]

@mikeydoughnut no trouble! Yeah those charts change quite drastically with leaf temp. I would have thought radiant heat from the lights would give a higher leaf reading than the environment even.

 

Appreciate recommendations when you have one with the desired accuracy!

Edited January 20, 2021 by superfruit

[NezA]

Not at all @mikeydoughnut the more the merrier.

 

I've always been a value oriented kinda guy I won't buy the cheapest but will rarely buy the most expensive either. Generally I go somewhere in the middle.

 

I'm going to be picking up another set of controllers for my veg tent next time they're on offer. My next batch of plants are pretty much fully vegged now and they're looking a tad sorry for themselves I'm sure a week or 2 in a nicer environment will do them wonders though. 

 

It's the roots where I'm seeing the biggest difference. Not sure what everyone else is finding. But the exact same plants exact same everything other than the light being an LED and the environment being "ok" rather than spot on in my veg tent. But comparing how they all did in my main room with proper VPD vs how the clones are performing in the tent without... It's ridiculous. I had roots that took up every square mm of space all the way to the surface of the soil nothing at all wrong with the roots I have but they're nowhere near that level.

 

[mikeydoughnut]

Im the same @NezA im not well off by any means but cheap shit is just that. Ordered one that was about £25 at discounted price. As much as i could afford. Lets hope its better than the 13 quidder! 

 

Wish id put a few more quid in and got the wifi ones but wasnt aware of being able to control from yer phone otherwise id have gone for it. Also nervous about other folk picking up my growing perimeters  im technologically naive. Times are moving to fast for me. Not sure my fears are based on reality like.

 

I wouldnt say im right on point either, but having said that, i think thats probably only possible in a sealed room. Again that might be my naievity talking. Not really noticed roots since i completed me pot ups before taking this seriously. I have noticed the general appearance is much better. I do have a couple of yellow tips but, as usual, ive left feeding until the last minute. Im scared of toxicity. I mean borderline major paranoia. Showing its hunger after 2 weeks of pot up tells me im doing something right. Just need to make their tea on time in future! 

[superfruit]

@mikeydoughnut @NezA are you guys using heat mats while chasing the VPD dragon? My roots are always 24c or so, but I'd assume VPD is still totally applicable and maybe even unchanged by this due to the fact that the variables are leaf temp, environmental temp and rh.