315w CMH. They work fine and dandy.

[~Sanctuary~]

If your using a cmh thats not double jacketed it needs to be used in an enclosed fixture.

[Sapo]

@@Mugwuffin

Yeah the difference between veg & bloom lights isn't that great for those. That's why I've said you can use veg bulbs to flower .

@@Golden Syrup

True that, but your argument goes both ways. These new agro lights are probably meant more for commercial greenhouse growers than anything else.

but they're not geared for horticulture

I'm not entirely convinced the new agro lights are either. Could all be just marketing. There are limits to how you can tweak those kind of lights. Not like state of the art COB LEDs to which you can apply coatings to get any light spectrum you want. I also don't see how they would be any more or less safe, these problems are inherent to the technology imho.

Also each lamp box comes with a warning on it that states not to turn the lamps on and off and then restrike straight away - it actual says to give them atleast 10 hours of operation before turning the lamp off sooner than 2 minutes. If that does happen we have to wait an hour for the lamp to chill out.

True I was probably lowballing a bit .

I don't want to be responsible for anyone going the cheaper route and something going wrong/ or them using it incorrectly/ not getting the results that were 'promised' thats why I recommend people use the stuff geared for horticulture and not shop lights!

Yup and I appreciate you bringing all that up so we could get into safety concerns a bit more. HPS aren't exactly geared for horticulture either, just repurposed street lights .

Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything. Probably all grown ups here, everyone got to make that decision for themselves.

All I'm saying is these are a valid option. Especially for people that can't afford the big ones, or don't got the space to effectively use 315W.

Not the first time I'm using these, not the last time. And I'm not alone .

If your using a cmh thats not double jacketed it needs to be used in an enclosed fixture.

Sorry didn't quite understand that, english isn't my native language. Do you mean the clamps that hold the bulb in place? These would be standard issue.

Edited January 3, 2016 by Sapo

[GSZZ]

@@Sapo

The new agro lights are geared towards horticulture in the sense that it's got a biggest spike in red, which I'm led to believe is because red photons just drive photosynthesis/have more energy per photon (or something like that) which drives biomass production - the mastercolour lamps are probably more shop lights TBH! E2A - Which you are right they probably are geared more towards glass house growers because they're supplementing the sun, but when it comes to indoor growing the agro lights are probably the best middle ground between light spectrum quality and PPF for yield!

Also, HPS are repurposed street lights, but if you've used HPS lamps from grow shops any time in the past 10 + years you've used a lamp geared for horticulture and not lighting the roads.

How does this coating thing work? I thought it was a bit more complicated than just having a coating over an LED/lamp otherwise why don't people just put coatings over HPS lamps to get a better spectrum? Excuse me if I'm being ignorant.

In regards to the double jacket - Sanctuary means that the 315w lamps, and some other CMH lamps have got two glass covers, one that covers the element inside and a larger one that contains the inner cover and the element its usually made of thicker and stronger glass, so it contains the boom when the lamps die/fault out.

Edited January 3, 2016 by Golden Syrup

[Mugwuffin]

@@Sapo yeah I can see that from the pdf, might get a 4200k one as well though, the UV output is almost double, would be nice for the last couple of weeks!

[~Sanctuary~]

Its because cmh lamps run at very high pressures so when they fail they explode and would cause serious injury if you were to be around one, hence why the ones used for horticulture are double jacketed to contain them if they go.

Edited January 3, 2016 by ~Sanctuary~

[Greenfinger53]

This thread reads like an LED thread but without the backlash

[Sapo]

@@Golden Syrup

Yeah and blue light. Can't recall the exact nm that got the highest potential. It isn't that simple though. If that were true, people would be getting +1 gpw with shitty red/blue first gen LEDs all the time. As I said, I'm not sure that there is that much a difference as far as the light spectrum goes between old gen and new gen CMHs. But I'll look into it .

Red Light is the main peak together with green.

No doubt that modern growshop HPS are much better than stolen street lights or something. Still far from optimal though.

I'm not an expert on the coating thing either. Basically they put a thin rubbery coating over single color COB/SMD LEDs, that got something inside that splits the light into different wavelengths. For example they use blue LEDs, put a white phosphorous coating on there and get a full spectrum light. They can tweak it however they want depending on what they put in the coating. I guess you could do this with HPS too, if you'd for example put a normal HPS in a cooltube made from colored glass.

Thanks for explaining the jacket thing to me . I don't recall if mine got two layer of glass or not. But most of the protective thing for the bulb is made from metal, except the bottom.

As I said, if you get a complete shoplight kit, these should be up to safety standards. I'll make a picture of my current fixture sometime when lights are off.

@@Mugwuffin

Yup, I'm planning on using 3x 150W on 120x90cm in a year or so. I'm for sure mixing them up. Also considering supplementing UV with either halogen reptile UV bulbs or UV LEDs.

@@~Sanctuary~

Thanks I'm aware and mentioned it before. Just didn't know what to make of the word jacketed. Thought you meant the metal clamps that hold the bulb in the socket.

[GSZZ]

@@Sapo

That is pretty interesting stuff about the coating the possibilities with that are a bit mad! Good luck LED growers they've got it good with that it seems to me - and I think the peak is between 600 - 700 nm for peak photosynthesis in the red part of the spectrum, thats what glass house growers use when supplementing the sun because it means they more plant for their money/electricity - and if the old CMH are anything like the 860w lamp that is being sold it'll have loads of green light, that whilst does drive photosynthesis unfortunately not as well as blue and red

@@Greenfinger53

Thats cos they don't claim to be anything they are not .

Edited January 3, 2016 by Golden Syrup

[Sapo]

As far as I know for red 660nm is slightly better than 630nm. That's what most LED manufacturers focused on after the first gen LEDs.

Yup one should expect a lot more research to be coming out about light. I know the manufacturer of my LEDs already offers custom builds if you buy in bulk .

I don't know how green light compares directly to red & blue (except for hearsay/paper). But I know for sure having some green light is better than having none .

[Subliminal Criminal]

i just saw on fleabay Phantom CMh Reflector, Ballast and Bulb kit

for under 400 bucks.. (240v) this is interesting.. hopefully in time if the technology is good enough the prices will drop

Oh yeah that price is for bulb ballast and reflector..

Edited January 3, 2016 by Subliminal Criminal

[greenvigilante]

i just saw on fleabay Phantom CMh Reflector, Ballast and Bulb kit

for under 400 bucks.. (240v) this is interesting.. hopefully in time if the technology is good enough the prices will drop

Oh yeah that price is for bulb ballast and reflector..

get them for 350 off another site for the maxibright 315w

not sure i get the fuss over these lights tho?

they put out 1.9umoles/par watts? the same as a 600w 400v per watt?? but cost double?

edit***

infact the 315w cdm puts out same as a standard 600w hps Philips SON-T Greenpower 600w 230v@ 1100 uMol per watt? so why the increased price tag?

Edited January 3, 2016 by greenvigilante

[~Sanctuary~]

Try finding any metal halide that has that level of output @@greenvigilante, imo they are best used as a supplement with 1000w de bulbs, if your using single sleeved cmh bulbs in open enclosures @@Sapo your asking for problems, I'd advice not having them on while working around them if this the case

[greenvigilante]

so the 315w cdm puts out 315w@1.9umol= 598 umol over a sqaure metre?

philips greenpower 600w 240v puts out 1100 umol/1.8 umol per watt

newish gavita 750 pro puts out 1500 umole/2umole per watt?

[greenvigilante]

Try finding any metal halide that has that level of output @@greenvigilante, imo they are best used as a supplement with 1000w de bulbs, if your using single sleeved cmh bulbs in open enclosures @@Sapo your asking for problems, I'd advice not having them on while working around them if this the case

no defo agree sanctuary they are great at wot they do but the way they are being marketed is almost led like ALMOST:P

been in a few grow shops in glasgow area and they are giving it they replace a 600w no probs.

looking at the stats they prob replace a 400w in standalone grows

[Subliminal Criminal]

yes but if there more efficient for less voltage they could be viable... even though people are satisfied with MH HPS at the moment dosnt mean we will be using them forever...

You wouldnt choose a CRT TV over a Flatscreen 4K HD would you?