315w CMH. They work fine and dandy.

[Aurora Ruderalis]

Given that my mini max ballast can fire a halide or hps bulb, would it fire one of the 150cmh bulbs or would it be a custom ballast job? Anybody used the 150 cmh? I like the sound of these...

[GSZZ]

Am I right in thinking that the 315 CMH is capable of returning similar yields to a 600w HPS?

One 315w is around the output of a 500w HPS - so not quite a 600w HPS on its own, but not far off.

Given that my mini max ballast can fire a halide or hps bulb, would it fire one of the 150cmh bulbs or would it be a custom ballast job? Anybody used the 150 cmh? I like the sound of these...

Please avoid from using the lamps that aren't meant to be used in horticulture - a lot of these lamps need to be hung in either vertical or hortizontal position, and some can only be used in enclosed reflectors. The 315w are based off the old 400w CMH but has been geared for horticulture, and even comes with the safety jacket around the inner lamp, so lamp failure won't blow you and your house up, can be ran verticle or horizontal, and can be used in any type of reflector (granted its got the correct type of socket).

Not only that - but the spectrum has been geared for plant growth, older CMH models have far more green light.

[twoscoops]

Just looking at this, would 4 of these bulbs perform as well as my 3 x 600 hps ? Just wondering cause it would be a nice saving on the electric.

If you swap to these bulbs 315 , would I need to also buy the correct shade and ballast for them ?

twoscoops

[GSZZ]

@@LovinTheBeans

I'm not sure dude because Phillips have changed the names of the lamps a few times so its a bit confusing. The lamps I'm using are the CDM-TP 315W/T12/U/O (that what it says on the back) on the front it says 315w/930 Master GreenPower Elite Agro.

They seem like the same lamps but I'm not sure if they're the ones for horticulture - my lamp definitely doesn't have that nipple on the end.

@@twoscoops

The science says yes, if they're standard 600w HPS they only output about 1.1 umol/s so you'd have a total of 1980 umol/s with the hps (i dont know you're space so dunno what that would be per square meter) with 4 x 315w you'd have a total of 2394 umol/s. Even if you were running the 400v lamps at 1.8 umol/s you'd have 3240 umol/s so you'd need to add another 2 CMH lamps so you'd actually be using more electric - but you would get more than 3 x 400v 600w.

Edited January 3, 2016 by Golden Syrup

[twoscoops]

@@Golden Syrup

My grow space is a 2m square tent. I use 3 x 600 hps for flowering, they are omega red spectrum 600 hps bulbs.

Thanks

twoscoops

[GSZZ]

@@twoscoops

Ok so with that lighting you have in there currently you're illuminating about 495 umol/s -1m2, with 4 x 315w CMH you'd be running 598.5 umol/s -1m2.

I dare say that yes you will probably get a bigger yield than you are currently getting - especially because with 4 CMH units you'd have a much much better spread of light than with 3 600s

[wotnwhy]

I've got a Dimlux 630 which is two of the 315 bulbs end to end in a reflector.

It easily out performs my old 4 and 600w duel spec bulbs in 80cm parabolics. Which is what used to cover my 2x1m tent.

Yield and frost are better than I was previously getting. And others say the plants finish a little quicker, too (though I don't keep good enough track of flowering time to know myself, certainly feels it though).

Plants also (anecdotally) look happier. And the white light is much better to see in than old yellow HPS.

It's hard to find fault, really. Only thing is the price. But it's brought my electric bill down and my quantity and quality up. So long term, worth every one of its many penny's!

[twoscoops]

@@Golden Syrup

Thank you

twoscoops

[~Sanctuary~]

How are you working out your figures @@Golden Syrup? From what I've gathered most 600w bulbs output over 1000 umol, around 1100 for the better ones, 495umol/s m2 isn't correct for 1800w hps spread just over 2 square meters, as the total irradiance level for those lamps would be over 3000 umol but it would depend on light fixture height and reflector design as to what's the canopy rating, cmh are comparable in output to hps but they give out a better spectrum which is where it gets tricky, some say this spectrum is better for growth, an example is traditional matal halide have 40% lower usable light outputs than hps but the yield outcome wouldn't be 40% lower because mh spectrum is more tailored for plant growth but not as efficient.

[GSZZ]

@@~Sanctuary~

Withnailed let me come back to this I think I've been looking at the wrong numbers/misunderstanding something.

e2a:

ok so the way I'm working this out is like this. I wouldn't be surprised to learn I'm wrong my maths is shite.

A 400v 600w puts out 1.88 umols per watt of light, a 600w 240v IIRC outputs 1.1 umols per watt. (Phillips Greenpower lamps, so that means we're being generous with twoscoops omega lamps )

So we're looking for the PPFD which is total illumination of the total square meters. Not just what the lamp outputs.

A 600w 400v outputs 1100 umols across 1 square meter (I'll not blag my own head anymoreby bringing stuff like reflector loss) So that then spread across 2m2 tent that is 275umol/s across a total of 4 square meters (2*2?). Add another three lamps and its 825umols.

A 600w 240v will only output 660 umols on 1 square meter, so its only 165 umols across a total of 4 square meters, times by three its a total of 495 umols per square meter.

The 315w agro 240v outputs 1.9 umols per watt, so it's easy to see that the 315w outperforms the 240v 600w - what you're saying is true for the 400v lamps, 4 CMH aren't enough to beat that.

Edited January 3, 2016 by Golden Syrup

[Sapo]

Given that my mini max ballast can fire a halide or hps bulb, would it fire one of the 150cmh bulbs or would it be a custom ballast job? Anybody used the 150 cmh? I like the sound of these...

If you do use one get an original ballast. They cost less than half of a bulb for the high wattage ones new. You can use the Osram ballast with the Philips bulbs and the other way around, but I wouldn't try using mh or hps ballasts. As I said there are grow reports with these out there, look for german,french & czech forums.

@@Golden Syrup

Please avoid from using the lamps that aren't meant to be used in horticulture - a lot of these lamps need to be hung in either vertical or hortizontal position, and some can only be used in enclosed reflectors. The 315w are based off the old 400w CMH but has been geared for horticulture, and even comes with the safety jacket around the inner lamp, so lamp failure won't blow you and your house up, can be ran verticle or horizontal, and can be used in any type of reflector (granted its got the correct type of socket)

Do you think shopping malls have any less interest in lamps not bursting into flames? As long as you don't touch the bulbs directly and turn them on without wiping them off, use original parts, and exchange the bulbs after 3/4 of their lifetime, and listen to the philips safety guide these aren't any more or less dangerous than hps.

I don't see how being able to use any reflector warrants paying 5x as much in both getting the lamps and longterm running costs. Besides, you can just replace your E40 sockets on almost any reflector with GU12 sockets if you'd really want to. But if you shop smart the reflectors those lights come with are just fine.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, if you turn your lights off like 5mins after they were running, and turn them right on again, you're going to ruin your bulb. Isn't going to break or anything, but won't start again. After your lights were running you need to let them cool off for an half hour before turning them back on again.

Warnings & safety

• Use only in totally enclosed luminaire, even during testing (IEC61167, IEC 62035, IEC60598)
• The luminaire must be able to contain hot lamp parts if the lamp ruptures
• Control gear must include end-of-life protection (IEC61167, IEC 62035)
• Lamps may use electronic or electromagnetic control gear, except 35W/942 and 20W lamps, which must use electronic control gear.
• A lamp breaking is extremely unlikely to have any impact on your health. Note by Sapo: There is a small amount of mercury in there. If a lamp breaks, ventilate the room for 30 minutes and remove the parts, preferably with gloves. Put them in a sealed plastic bag and take it to your local waste facilities for recycling. Do not use a vacuum cleaner.

I'm not sure dude because Phillips have changed the names of the lamps a few times so its a bit confusing. The lamps I'm using are the CDM-TP 315W/T12/U/O (that what it says on the back) on the front it says 315w/930 Master GreenPower Elite Agro.

They seem like the same lamps but I'm not sure if they're the ones for horticulture - my lamp definitely doesn't have that nipple on the end.

Not only that - but the spectrum has been geared for plant growth, older CMH models have far more green light.

Yeah it's weird. I've trying looking up yourlights on the philips homepage, but could only find the same series with different sockets and way lower wattages.

I don't think green light is a bad thing. I know, on paper it says plants can't use it and reflect it back and all that, but I did a comparison between a 150W full spectrum LED that got the whole light spectrum except green, and a Philips CDM-T Elite CMH and the CMH plants looked happier.

Here's the data sheet : http://download.p4c.philips.com/l4bt/3/322825/mastercolour_cdm-t_322825_ffs_aen.pdf

The colour spectrum doesn't look that much different from the lights mugwuffin posted a page back.

I wish I could find the data sheet of yours to compare. But as I said, mine probably have slightly lower efficiency.

Would be interesting though to compare Philips CDM-T Elite and the 315W new ones.

Just my two cents

Edited January 3, 2016 by Sapo

[Mugwuffin]

Sorry for putting a link, but is this a much cheaper version of the bulb you are referring to?

I ordered my bulb here, £41.66 including delivery, always worth checking if the particular models have UV filters guys, the specific model I ordered (CMH400/TT/UVC/U/830/E40) was the only one GE do without a filter, a lot of the Philips models use a UV filter too, especially the commercial ones (so as not to fade signs etc).

@@Sapo I was surprised by the efficiency rating, 101% . I thought the 3000k version would be better for flower as it's close to HPS.

Edited January 26, 2016 by distracted

[lazi]

LTB and Mugwuffin, that's an architecture light. Will work but at 12/12, you'll get almost 8 years before it wears out. Looks like it could beat a 400w hps though.

Argo is the word to look for, not Elite.

[GSZZ]

@@Sapo

Of course I think shops are concerned about those things - but I also know they're concerned about electricity bills and aren't exactly going to be running really high wattage lamps, CMH lamps are bright as fuck I wouldn't be surprised to learn that each fixture is only 100 watts in a shop or something. Plus they're hung either open/enclosed about 20 meters in the air or something, not 2m above plants in a flammable box.

I understand the point you're trying to make though, but they're not geared for horticulture and there is the potential for them to be dangerous IMO it makes more sense to just get the lamps geared for horticulture instead of shop lights we're not in the 80s anymore.

Also each lamp box comes with a warning on it that states not to turn the lamps on and off and then restrike straight away - it actual says to give them atleast 10 hours of operation before turning the lamp off sooner than 2 minutes. If that does happen we have to wait an hour for the lamp to chill out.

I don't want to be responsible for anyone going the cheaper route and something going wrong/ or them using it incorrectly/ not getting the results that were 'promised' thats why I recommend people use the stuff geared for horticulture and not shop lights!

e2a

@@lazi whats the deal with the differing names? You say stay away from elite and go for agro, my lamp is an ELITE AGRO! D: (e2a but that is the 315w phillips)

Edited January 3, 2016 by Golden Syrup

[Captain Compost]

Ive had a look around and the best price i can find for the proper 315w philips cdm-t bulbs and ballast with a reflector is 350 notes, they are pretty expensive ey. Has anyone found them any cheaper? I was only looking at companies selling them in the uk