315w CMH. They work fine and dandy.

[lazi]

Hi folks, how's it been going? Been gone awhile but these new lights have given me the itch to get going again.

Almost a year ago, I help the.son of a mate of mine set up an attic grow. Those who remember me know it would be Fytocell, drain to waste, the lucas formula and open modues. Things went ok but he wanted more light than the two 600w hps lights were giving him.

By chance I learned of the 315w CMH and got reading. The American forum has one long and one massively long thread. I read the lot and he decided to give them a go.

Problem was the price. Most UK shops were asking £825 for the double D-Pap. Finally found one a lot cheaper and he ran it in one module with a 600w hps parabolic in the other. Almost all the veg was done under the hps.

End result was that the Double D-Pap pissed all over the hps. Not only that, Jackie White (from seed) needs 10 weeks of 12/12 (hps). Not with CMH, they were ready after 8 weeks and 2 days of 12/12.

The D-Pap: It was the only 315w CMH available in the UK. Getting the bulbs in was initially a problem. Trick is to have ballast upside down and offer up the bulb at a 45 degree angle. Wear cotton gloves. Then it will sort of find itself the correct angle for insertion. Once you have the 2 connectors aligned with the socket holes, it just takes about a quarter turn to lock it in place. Way better than E40 Mogul, no risk of over/under tightening. Personally, I think the D-Pap reflector isn't suited for home grows. The light spreads out a LOT. Also, it is very heavy. Raising or lowering the light is an interesting experience. In its favour, the heat was slightly less than the 600w parabolic.

For those that are patient and like a bargain, there is a guy in the States that sells 315w ballasts and bulbs, $200 for a bulb and ballast kit. It's the same guy that was selling 400w CMH bulbs when they were available. His record for service is spotty but he is honest. The bulb he supplies is an E40 Mogul fit. He reckons it give better results and it has more UV that the plants like. Downside is that useful life of that bulb is a lot shorter than the bulbs supplied with any CMH ballast you can buy here. Also, the bulb is FAT. He is on youtube if you want to look for him.

I'll be getting the Maxibright kit if and when I start up again. Not too fussed on the reflectors but if they're not ok, I can swap them out for adjusta wings, looking to cover 4 foot by 2 each reflector.

Just to finish off, there is a German guy on the auction site selling both the blue and red bulbs. With shipping they work out less than £70 each. Unlike the £100 asked by grow shops here.

e2a: No idea how 'at the time' got into the thread title.

Edited December 31, 2015 by lazi

[~Sanctuary~]

Welcome back

[Sapo]

I use lower wattage CMHs too. It's not well known, but people are growing with them all over europe.

They are used everywhere as shop lights ( Philips CDM-T & Osram Powerball HCI ).

You can get a used 150W kit with an electronic ballast for about 30€, new bulbs are about 10€.

They work just fine, much better than HPS. The light spectrum is much closer to the sun as well.

You won't be disappointed .

Edited December 31, 2015 by Sapo

[Captain Compost]

Sounds like a really nice little bulb, out of interest how much heat do they give out compared to hps?

Would 315watts of philips CDM-T be equavilent to 315watts of HPS heat?

Edited December 31, 2015 by Fredrik

[Mugwuffin]

I've just ordered a GE ceramic metal halide 400w e40 ? guessing this is the same tech ?

Edit: The part number is CMH400/TT/UVC/U/830/E40

Edited January 1, 2016 by Mugwuffin

[GSZZ]

This will be my first run that I've used 100% ceramic halide from start to finish and not just flower, and I fucked up too bad last time to get a real accurate representation of what the lamps can do yield wise. This will also be my first run running a clone I've grown under traditional lighting to compare properly.

On paper these lamps are mega, but time will tell but so far I am not feeling dissapointed in the slightest. I worked out I am currently running 835.25 umol/s -1m2, to get close to that with traditional HPS I would have to be running a single ended 1000w hps in each side of my tent, and they only output about 800 umol/s -1m2. If they prove true then I'll be saving 800w of electric, and these lamps run loads cooler about as warm as a 250/400w HPS lamp per 315w.

Awesome to see more people using them though, they're worth it for the spectrum alone!

Edited January 1, 2016 by Golden Syrup

[Sapo]

About march I can provide some pics too .

[lazi]

Welcome back

Thanks.

Fredrick, I would guess that the heat would be less as more leccy goes into producing light. The Double D was slightly cooler than the 600w parabolic but that included ballast heat for the D-Pap. Remote ballast on the 600w HPS

Mugwuffin, that bulb looks like the now discontinued Philips 400w CMH. If so, it is designed to be used in a regular 400w magnetic HPS ballast. Where Europe used strip lighting for factories and warehouses etc. The US used 400w HPS. The CMH was a replacement bulb that gave white light instead of the HPS orange. Just happened to good for vegging too. Best contact the vendor to be sure of what ballast to use it with.

Maybe we should call these new lights LECs (Light Emitting Ceramic) to avoid confusion with the 400w CMH?

Golden Syrup, I too was dubious of the claims for them until I saw pics and heard reports of newbies screwing up and still getting close to 1.0 gpw. Some reckon the 315w is as good as 600w HPS but I wouldn't go that far. As good as almost 500w HPS imo. Put another way, any grower that gets a consistent 1.0 gpw with HPS should be getting close to 1.5 gpw with these bulbs.

I won't be using them in order to get mega yields although I won't complain if that happens. For me, they are a way of getting acceptable HPS yields with next to no effort or fuss.

Sapo, Roll on March.

[GSZZ]

Golden Syrup, I too was dubious of the claims for them until I saw pics and heard reports of newbies screwing up and still getting close to 1.0 gpw. Some reckon the 315w is as good as 600w HPS but I wouldn't go that far. As good as almost 500w HPS imo. Put another way, any grower that gets a consistent 1.0 gpw with HPS should be getting close to 1.5 gpw with these bulbs.

I won't be using them in order to get mega yields although I won't complain if that happens. For me, they are a way of getting acceptable HPS yields with next to no effort or fuss.

I agree, definitely about the same as 500w of HPS. I got interested in them for the better spectrum, which in turn grows a better smoke - the added yield is just a bonus too!

Hope you get some pictures up soon! I'm excited to see what people are doing with these lamps

[Sapo]

Just so folks can get a better idea what CMH light looks like. These are veg bulbs (942). When the lights start up, you can clearly see that these got a good amount green light.

This is how they look if they are on completely. Much more pleasing to the eyes than HPS. Good light penetration too.

That's why I said march. Not much to see here . And even then, this is just a seed run on 60x60cm, 150W 12/12 from seed, veg bulbs the whole time (you can do this with those). So I won't be winning any price . But if it's just about putting proof in the pudding, I can deliver.

If the high wattage ones also got protective glass (which they should have, one problem with CMHs is, if you really push the envelope and use your bulbs until they stop working, they might explode/implode), they should run much cooler than HPS. Both because of better efficiency, and because most of the heat rises/is blocked by the glass. It's like an passive built-in cooltube. I can get as close as 5cm with my hand without issues, wouldn't recommend hanging them that close for your plants though.

Mine are older technology than the new high wattage ones, so they are slightly less efficient. But as I said way cheaper, and if you use more of these still very much worth it .

Edited January 1, 2016 by Sapo

[Mugwuffin]

@@lazi, thanks for the advice, just checked the pdf http://www.gelighting.com/LightingWeb/emea/images/ConstantColor_CMH_High_Wattages_Lamps_Data_sheet_EN_tcm181-12578.pdf

It says HPS compatible ? suppose I should contact them, I only have electronic ballasts :\

[lazi]

I know the Philips 400w CMH wouldn't run in an electronic ballast. The high frequency shakes it to bits. Dangerous.

Although the ballast for the 315 watters is electronic, it is actually a 100 hz square wave, so there isn't going to be any RFI.

[Tony Montana]

Am I right in thinking that the 315 CMH is capable of returning similar yields to a 600w HPS?

[is it tho?]

Welcome back lazi! I had a great first grow and many others thanks to your £20/oz diary.

Are these bulbs the same as the rather nice looking but mucho ££ Dimlux cdm with 2 X 325w Phillips bulbs ?

[Clay Davis]

Glad to hear the good results! I've been following the technology for a number of years myself.

I've just punted for the Maxibright Daylight 315W twin kit - now I have to decide whether to run them side by side or against a 660w HPS

Initially I couldn't be doing with shipping CMH overseas, then the all in one jobbies hit the UK but aren't suitable for my space. Glad to be able to get a remote ballast which uses Phillips internals. The high price of bulbs seems like it can be justified by the gains, going by online growers that is

Edited January 3, 2016 by Clay Davis