Trichoderma Harzianum & Vesicular Arbuscular Mycorrhizas

[Felix Dzerzhinsky]

I've been given some spores for Trichoderma Harzianum and have been reading that it will quickly colonise the entire plant and once in association with the host plant the Trichoderma H will actually attack and kill pathogenic fungi trying to attack it's host. It does this by coiling it's hyphae around another fungi and strangling it too death

Now that sounds pretty cool to me (no more fungal problems ever) but one thought occurs - I use the fungal soil innoculant RootGrow (along with bacterial soil innoculants) and was wondering if the Trichoderma H. will perceive the VAM's (Vesicular Arbuscular Mycorrhizas) to be pathogenic as they invade and colonise the rhizosphere ?

Or will they work together ? Does RootGrow contain Trichoderma's and if so which species ?

Thanks in advance,

Felix.

[Davey Jones]

How do we know what bacteria and fungi are beneficial to the plants and which will harm it. there appears to be thousands of different types will some types not go with others. and how do we know everything in the pot is happy.

[Felix Dzerzhinsky]

Is there a Mycologist in the house ?

Thanks,

Felix.

[redeyes420]

I've been given some spores for Trichoderma Harzianum and have been reading that it will quickly colonise the entire plant and once in association with the host plant the Trichoderma H will actually attack and kill pathogenic fungi trying to attack it's host. It does this by coiling it's hyphae around another fungi and strangling it too death

Now that sounds pretty cool to me (no more fungal problems ever) but one thought occurs - I use the fungal soil innoculant RootGrow (along with bacterial soil innoculants) and was wondering if the Trichoderma H. will perceive the VAM's (Vesicular Arbuscular Mycorrhizas) to be pathogenic as they invade and colonise the rhizosphere ?

Or will they work together ? Does RootGrow contain Trichoderma's and if so which species ?

Thanks in advance,

Felix.

how did you come about finding thoose spores mate,

id be interested to see how you get on

[Felix Dzerzhinsky]

Well not much definite info to report back.

It seems that Trichoderma Harzianum will co-exist with the VAM fungi found in RootGrow etc and some American products actually include it in their mix, along with ECM's (Ectomycorrhizas) which RootGrow may or may not contain.

I have found that plants treated with Trichoderma H as well as RootGrow are actually suffering from nute burn, this is in a compost mix that I have been using for a while now as is exactly the same formulation that I used last grow season without any nute burn. I'm not quite sure why this would happen as I thought Trichoderma H provided protection from pathogens rather than help absorb nutrients. None of the plants have been fed with any form of nutrient, they are just pulling what they need from the compost.

There's a couple of links at the end of this in case anyone feels like some further reading. They are from the States and Australia so species may not be the same but general principles will be

Trichoderma at Cornell University

VAM & ECM at CSIRO

I've also sprayed some of the spores onto the upper part of the plant to see if this will deter any fungi from getting a foothold on the leaves or stems but I'm not going to try and deliberately try and infect any of my plants.

Felix.

[Guest Dr Benways Assistant]

but I'm not going to try and deliberately try and infect any of my plants.

Not fancy taking one for the team no?

[Felix Dzerzhinsky]

Not fancy taking one for the team no?

I thought about it but then thought what if it doesn't work and rips through my entire crop

So in answer to your question I'm not taking one for the team Now Doc if your game I could prob send you some spores ? Are you feeling lucky ?

Felix.

[redeyes420]

just read this , from one of your sources mate, might explain your nute burn,

"Perhaps even more importantly, our recent research indicates that corn whose roots are colonized by Trichoderma strain T-22 require about 40% less nitrogen fertilizer than corn whose roots lack the fungus"

[Felix Dzerzhinsky]

just read this , from one of your sources mate, might explain your nute burn,

"Perhaps even more importantly, our recent research indicates that corn whose roots are colonized by Trichoderma strain T-22 require about 40% less nitrogen fertilizer than corn whose roots lack the fungus"

Nice one man, I hadn't read them all the way through yet myself That could well be it, if it's true that could result in quite a saving nute wise. Nice one Redeyes, thanks.

[oldtimer1]

Plants whose roots are colonised trichoderma will have a larger rootmass, are protected and free of pathogenic infections. So they will work at the best possible efficiency. When used in combination with endo +ecto Mycorrhizal’s the additional hypha can increase the effect of the rootmass by 7 fold, it depends on the volume the root/Mycorrhizal’s have to grow in.

The additional root mass will make more effective use nutrients in the soil or compost, but this will not cause leaf burn unless there are large out of balance nutrient reserves in the soil. The plant top will just grow in balance with its root mass.

If fed with fertilisers, much less will be needed than plants with a smaller root mass as uptake is much faster, It is also much easier to over do it especially with chemical salt fertilisers, also more care is needed with organic inputs where the nutrients are in an immediate ready to use form, these are know as fast acting. Two most common are dried blood or blood meal can release nitrogen as fast as a plant can take it, also seaweed extracts and fine blended seaweed meal especially where it contains dust can release potassium very rapidly, especially if there is an active microbial population in the soil or compost.

I would like to see a clear picture of the leaf damage to get a better idea of what the problem may be.

[Guest Dr Benways Assistant]

:wink:

Now Doc if your game I could prob send you some spores ? Are you feeling lucky ?

Felix.

Ha, no need already got em :wink: . Got a load of early cut bud to look forward to but it gave me an excuse to buy a bigger fan.

[Felix Dzerzhinsky]

Ha, no need already got em . Got a load of early cut bud to look forward to but it gave me an excuse to buy a bigger fan.

Sorry to hear that Doc , I meant I'd send you some T. Harzianum spores to test :wink: on the fungi

Still,just time to get something nice and quick flowering on the go for Christmas :wink:

[Guest Dr Benways Assistant]

Ah, i see. Got a few un-moldable sativas should be done soon and hopefully the environmental probs will be sorted shortly. I'm going to try finding those spores though as they sound the business.

[Felix Dzerzhinsky]

Ah, i see. Got a few un-moldable sativas should be done soon and hopefully the environmental probs will be sorted shortly. I'm going to try finding those spores though as they sound the business.

Glad some made it without getting infected. :fuckyou:

I mixed it with another inoculant that contains a mixture of bacteria and several other species of trichoderma (currently not available as far as I'm aware) and this does seem to have colonized the entire plant. Even on new growth, that has emerged after the plants were sprayed, it's possible to see a very slight grey misting, similar to the bloom you get on grapes and ripe plums.

Even if you have a very good airflow in your grow rooms this does seem like worthwhile insurance for very little outlay and effort.

Edited September 16, 2007 by felix_dzerjinski

[Arbuscule]

I'm afraid I only have a further question to contribute and a rather newb one at that.

Went to hydro shop yesterday in search of mycorrhizal fungi, as I had read the threads about them here. They had never heard of them and did not stock the soil secrets range or its equivalent. They stocked biobizz root juice, but it was £28 and I'm just growing for med percy.

Instead they persuaded me to buy the Canna product 'Trichoderma', which purports to contain 'a high concentration of the trichoderma harzianum '. The bottle claims (sorry, no camera for a pic) to 'stimulate the growth and root development of young plants and cuttings'. They claim it 'suppresses undesirable micro organisms and has a positive influence on the balance between soil organisms and micro organisms'.

To the question: Should I proceed with using this product for planting seedlings ? Ill be planting in rootriot cubes, as they worked last time and then planting in small pots in about a week, or when the roots look ready to plant (in biobizz light mix, then allmix later). If I use the canna product I was going to lace the holes in their first pots with it next week. Is this a good plan ?

Or should I pay for the root juice ? Maybe use both ? I'm not sure if the root juice is essentially the same thing, or if it would supplement it in a beneficial way. I wanted an innoculant that would promote healthy root juice.

I hope you'll excuse me if I'm intruding on the thread with the question, but it seemed more apt than starting a new thread for the question(s)