Disaster with cuttings using heat mat

[JesusChrist]

Just now, ratdog said:

 

 

i work with them regularly mate, i understand about them, so i use a 100w version in my tents, personally i don't want them to be any more powerful, mine work just fine. the heat mats are exactly the same as under floor heating, just lower watts in my case, the ones i fit are usually 150 watts, sometimes 200w per metre.

 

Yea but if you fit them you'll know they're as powerful as you want them to be, so if you wanted it to be 100w per meter that it's just a question of cable spacing. Like I say, it's customisable.

[ratdog]

Just now, JesusChrist said:

Here, I'll tell you what, if at any point you're curious about it or have a few quid burning a hole in your pocket for upgrades, or even just so you know it exists and to have in mind, have a look at this stuff Membrane & Heating cable

 

Honestly mate it's fucking sweet. Proper clean, efficient, and customisable perfectly for whatever space you want to heat - I mean you could theoretically heat just the outside of an area if you wanted to keep that for clones etc etc. Gets cheaper the bigger the area you're trying to do as well. 

 

 

if i was doing big rooms, i'm not, this is a home grower site i would use water based heating with boards and pipes and connect to my boiler, even cheaper

[ratdog]

Just now, JesusChrist said:

 

Yea but if you fit them you'll know they're as powerful as you want them to be, so if you wanted it to be 100w per meter that it's just a question of cable spacing. Like I say, it's customisable.

 

 

the mats come already spaced, they are a set distance for a reason, i wouldn't cram in any more, i would just up the wattage, but the roots are delicate things

[JesusChrist]

Yea but a much bigger job doing pipes. 

 

There's quite a few people on here with 1.2 x 2.4m tents. It's easy to fit a cabling system in one of those. Side by side in that situation there's no comparison. If you want to stick rigidly with garden mats and have a load of them hooked up to an extension plug that's a personal choice. It's just not one I think anyone who's used an underfloor heat mat or cabling system would go with

[JesusChrist]

Just now, ratdog said:

 

 

the mats come already spaced, they are a set distance for a reason, i wouldn't cram in any more, i would just up the wattage, but the roots are delicate things

 

Precisely

 

That's why spacing your wattage over a bigger area would mean a reduction in heating in any one point, not an increase

[ratdog]

Just now, JesusChrist said:

 

Precisely

 

That's why spacing your wattage over a bigger area would mean a reduction in heating in any one point, not an increase

 

 

i wouldn't be spacing my wattage either , i'm using 100w per square metre, which is perfect for keeping my roots nice and cosy in a cold room in the winter at lights out, i don't want my roots any warmer!

[JesusChrist]

So your mat is a meter square? 

 

If that's the case and your floor space is a meter exactly then great. If not and it's any bigger, or the area you need to heat is a little different, then a cabling system or underfloor heating is the way to go.

 

You're saying what you've got works for you, and I don't doubt that it's true. But if you're a grower looking to find which is the most efficient overall to heat a floor space between a cabling system and a decoupling membrane vs a bog standard garden heating mat as sold in most places, the cabling system wins hands down

[nigelpotter]

11 hours ago, JesusChrist said:

 

I don't doubt it, but the fact remains that standing water only increases the chance of rot. 

 

If you try capillary matting and extra deep jiffys you'll see how much better it is. Don't take my word for it, give it a try on your next round of clones

 

The plugs aren't sitting in the water they are raised above it, I'm using an old mini rockwool plug tray, the round jiffy's sit fine on top of the square holes, never had rot, i just find it a good way to dissipate/diffuse the direct heat from the heat mat which is under the prop.

 

Using capillary matting, well it depends on what way you are using it - if its sandwiched between the underneath of the prop and heat mat then it can do a good job.

 

With regards to the underfloor heating, was wondering what are you using to cover the top of the uncoupling membrane/cabling system?

[JesusChrist]

I use flexi trays personally on top of some sheet. I've also used some thin hardboard sheets to make a basic floor over the mat, and trays directly on top of it. 

 

Just now, nigelpotter said:

Using capillary matting, well it depends on what way you are using it - if its sandwiched between the underneath of the prop and heat mat then it can do a good job.

 

I put it under the plugs if I use it. If they need water just tip in half a litre or so and the matting distributes it evenly

[nigelpotter]

On 27/04/2021 at 1:55 PM, JesusChrist said:

I use flexi trays personally on top of some sheet. I've also used some thin hardboard sheets to make a basic floor over the mat, and trays directly on top of it. 

 

So how many watts per m2 are you running, say 130w per m2? And what about potential flooding or water getting into the membrane/cabling, is it waterproof? 

[JesusChrist]

Yea it's about that, have a look at the ones I linked, they're what I use. 

 

It's waterproof in as much as it's a sealed cable. It's designed to be put under carpet and is rated to be safe in this location, so apply that logic to it and you'll be ok, ie protect it from direct damage and cover it with something. Just be logical in what you do and set it up nice and you'll have a system you're very happy with.

 

I'd advise you to put a thin insulation sheet under it - 10mm is plenty - and some 3mm hardboard over it. Then put your waterproof sheet over your hardboard and your job is a good one. 

 

[ratdog]

On 27/04/2021 at 0:26 PM, JesusChrist said:

So your mat is a meter square? 

 

If that's the case and your floor space is a meter exactly then great. If not and it's any bigger, or the area you need to heat is a little different, then a cabling system or underfloor heating is the way to go.

 

You're saying what you've got works for you, and I don't doubt that it's true. But if you're a grower looking to find which is the most efficient overall to heat a floor space between a cabling system and a decoupling membrane

 

 

i have two mats that are 1m2 in two areas that size, and 2 1.2x600 for my 1.2m rated 100w per mat i think, but certainly 100w per m2

 

Quote

vs a bog standard garden heating mat as sold in most places, the cabling system wins hands down

 

 

keep putting them down, shit then bog standard, who are you trying to convince?

 

can you show me how you found out the difference? how can you heat a 1m2 area with less that 100w to the same standard?

 

you were talking about making the wires closer, how does that fit in to being more efficient? if not can you explain how your system is better?, some pictures would be cool.

 

you are running 130 watts per metre, and you say it's more efficient???

Edited April 28, 2021 by ratdog

[JesusChrist]

 

Sigh... @ratdog .. why are you treating this like a personal argument?

Is something pissing you off lately?

 

Someone's already explained to you better than I could, how from a quality control pov there's a significant difference, and if that doesn't already swing it for you then the questions aren't my end bud, they're for you..... Why?

 

Why are you so adamant on sticking to your guns on the garden mats? If they're more expensive and with lower safety regs, why the fuck would you bother beyond that?

 

Not to mention the fact that the bigger the area you're trying to heat - and I'm not talking commercial, I'm talking a 2.4m x 1.2m tent - the more idiotic it is to attempt to do this with garden mats all over the place hooked up to an extension lead. I mean that's just a basic common sense thing and not something a qualified electrician needs to dismiss as a whack idea.

 

And if I think they're shit, why does me saying so offend you?

 

Look, I said the other day to try one and you'll probably be happy. You obviously think that's a preposterous idea so fine, just move on and let other people be advised. If you want to steer them toward something which I said is shite and impractical and Davey Jones says is dangerous and low quality, that's your personal choice and if someone else want to take your recommendation over mine they're free to do so. 

 

As far as the efficiency point you've just made, I'll let you think about that for a while and the penny might drop on why your logic is out of whack by comparing overall watts and making that the defining variable in the equation. I can't be bothered to explain tbh mate, you don't seem intent on listening at all so take it easy dude. 

[pepe16]

On 4/28/2021 at 9:58 PM, JesusChrist said:

Yea it's about that, have a look at the ones I linked, they're what I use. 

 

It's waterproof in as much as it's a sealed cable. It's designed to be put under carpet and is rated to be safe in this location, so apply that logic to it and you'll be ok, ie protect it from direct damage and cover it with something. Just be logical in what you do and set it up nice and you'll have a system you're very happy with.

 

I'd advise you to put a thin insulation sheet under it - 10mm is plenty - and some 3mm hardboard over it. Then put your waterproof sheet over your hardboard and your job is a good one. 

 

Can those mats be cut to size?  I've got reptile heating cable atm, but looking for something like this instead.    If they can be trimmed (to 70x50cm), what combination of that gear do I need to make a kit?  Apologies for dim questions, but I know squat about underfloor heating and had neglected it.  Thanks.

[JesusChrist]

3 hours ago, pepe16 said:

Can those mats be cut to size?  I've got reptile heating cable atm, but looking for something like this instead.    If they can be trimmed (to 70x50cm), what combination of that gear do I need to make a kit?  Apologies for dim questions, but I know squat about underfloor heating and had neglected it.  Thanks.

 

They're not dim questions they're ones you've got to ask. 

 

These mats can't be cut to size but the cable can be customised to fit almost any space. The decoupling membrane which the cable threads through can just be cut like rubber mat and the cable put into it.