RDWC Build guide

[badbillybob]

Quote

 

Ask Zen- Ken about venturis, im sure he tried them once or twice.

[badbillybob]

im going to add some more golden nuggets of information here relating to undercurrent and rdwc systems, from " the man" himself, my own inspirational leader, who unfortunately doesn't frequent forums any more, but who is, in my honest opinion, the best, Heath Robinson. Heath has forgotten more about hydro than I will ever know. I am posting this because by all accounts he is a humble, honest and generous man who would have no objection to sharing his knowledge. His outlook was to keep things simple and by doing this he has grown out 74 ounce plants and hitting almost 3 gram per watt. We're not worthy etc..  ive tried to contact him a few times, to ok the use of this, but hes MIA. 

 

Dissolved oxygen (DO) is one of the single most important factors in hydroponics. If DO concentrations are low plants cannot take up nutrients, they will grow slowly or not at all, and they will be susceptible to disease. where concentrations are very low, plants may die from lack of oxygen.

Wherever water is in contact with the atmosphere, oxygen from the air will enter the water until the pressure of oxygen in water and air are equal. This is known as equilibrium or saturation. The concentration of DO at saturation increases with increasing pressure and decreases with increasing water temperature.

When water contains less oxygen than the saturation concentration, oxygen from the atmosphere diffuses into the water, Oxygen will be added to a recirculating system at almost any point where the water surface is in contact with the atmosphere.


The addition of a air stone can be useful but not in the way that most growers think. If the recirculating water is at full saturation then the addition of air stones wont make any difference whatsoever, if the water is low in DO for whatever reason, then the addition of an air stone would increase DO simply by the action of moving the water and allowing more contact area at the water surface as I mentioned earlier "Wherever water is in contact with the atmosphere, oxygen from the air will enter the water until the pressure of oxygen in water and air are equal". This can also be achieved by simply placing a small submerged pump in your rez.

Good diffusers and Protein skimmers will add Do because of the small bubble size they produce, typically less than 1 millimetre (mm) in average diameter, compared to 3 to 5 mm or more for aquarium type air stones. For example, decreasing the bubble size from 2.4 mm to 0.4 mm would increase the contact area between the air and water by a factor of five. An additional benefit of small bubbles is they take much longer to rise. A good diffuser will supersaturate your water which wont directly benefit the plant as it cant use the extra DO but it might indirectly help by increasing the numbers of beneficial bacteria and reducing harmful ones

 

[badbillybob]

After much deliberation, im looking into  having a change , and one of my lines of thought is that I am thinking about down sizing my system.

Im running 9 just now, but to be honest its a bit much, im using loads of ferts and reckon another fortnight of veg with half the plants will be more than enough to fill the room. 

I will be using less pots and running lights vertically (possibly) , to grow out some big trees

So I will either be building another system. 

Or I might just take out every 2nd pot and extend the drain pipes and spray bar feeds, if its gonna be easier. (I like easy)

 

if there is any interest i'll document the build on here. 

it wont be much different to my existing system to be honest, just less pots. 

 

Tank connectors are ordered, the rest of the pipe etc I can pick up locally.

[zen-ken]

On 28/09/2019 at 10:15 PM, geoffo said:

 

 

Venturi system mate. Higher TDO levels without the noisy airpump.

Im shocked venturi systems arnt all over the place nowadays. Im about to set one up, just come to see what others did n if theres anything more to learn

 

Been playing around with idea for a while now.....

brought a huge kockney koi airstorm venturi that is for a future project as the fucking thing is LOUD cutting holes in water pumps and forcing it into the pump (this never ends well)

 

Looked at protein skimmers and forced mazzie venturis with ozone or pure oxygen forced injection (tank or medical pump)....found a great korean company that does useful looking products........Then I got to nanobubble tech and the prices got fucking silly.

 

Someone quoted me six grand for a prototype carbon ceramic forced nano bubble generator its the way forward as you can 'supersaterate' the water and increase DO levels way way above normal but creating them is proving expensive (I only need a few of the carbon cermic nozzles but the bastard wont sell them unless you already have the unit)

 

With all this in mind is not just easier to just go full aeroponics and get the same effects at a fraction of the price ?

I have seen an electrolysis machine that creates nanobubbles from the water but that was stupid money as well....in the thousands and I worry what it would do to the nutes.

 

If you have a cheap fairly non noisy way to introduce nanobubbles to RDWC I would grateful as it haunts my nightmares

 

 

 

http://www.human-resonance.org/geyser_reactor.html

Edited December 2, 2019 by zen-ken

[zen-ken]

sorry @geoffo    I just realised I already told you most of this in another thread.....Im a bit slow today

[badbillybob]

Quote

 

I cant remember the science behind it, but I remember reading a post from Heath (robinson) - hydro guru, about nano -tech and those grow emitters, and he was saying that its possible to super - saturate the water to a level where it becomes toxic to plants. I wish I could find the link, im sure it was on international cannagraphic, but it was years ago, when they first came out. I also remember him saying that using a monster pump and airstones would damage the roots causing a slow in plant growth, which makes sense to me. Ive seen this in a alien system where boyo uprated to monster pump and diffusers, the roots were almost shredded, and looked terrible.

 

if you are tempted to go down that route, with  let us know how it goes. I remember watching a yootoob vid where the bloke was injecting pure oxygen into the system on a timer, and his plant growth looked impressive, but, er how can I put this- he was American, an they are known to exxagerate

I don't think the cost v benefit would make it worthwhile, from what you are saying.

 

Skimmers and air lifts are other options and have been used successfully before, there are loads of ways to skin a cat, but as long as the dissolved oxygen levels in the system are in the zone, you should be good to go.

Interesting to see what you are saying about venturis, did you ever try it Ken?

 

Personallly speaking, i reckon replacing your airstones with a air diffuser would be a good compromise, but at 60 quid per diffuser, im out

Edited December 2, 2019 by badbillybob

[badbillybob]

Thinking about venture, it would probably work in a smaller system, , I think you would need a few in a bigger system, or the DO would be all but gone by the time it reaches the last bucket, no?

 

And yeah aeroponics is probably the most productive system, but to do it properly with timers solenoids etc it wouldn't be cheap, and ive yet to see someone do a completely trouble free grow in (proper)  aeroponics

Edited December 2, 2019 by badbillybob

[zen-ken]

Only the koi venturi one so far (it was way too loud) as the mazzie type are few hundred for the size and amount I needed so im sticking with japanese airstones until I change the system to spray bars or I can get them bloody carbon ceramic airstones

 

The americans can throw unlimited money at this so I gave up reinventing the wheel

[badbillybob]

There is a lot to be said for keeping it simple Ken. Go have a look at Sqydros rdwc grow on youtoob.

if you type in "V3 growshow with rdwc", you will see what I mean.

its just a recirc system with the totes being fed from a rubber hose off the pump. I cant remember if he uses airstones or not, but the buds speak for themselves.

[zen-ken]

10 minutes ago, badbillybob said:

There is a lot to be said for keeping it simple Ken. Go have a look at Sqydros rdwc grow on youtoob.

if you type in "V3 growshow with rdwc", you will see what I mean.

its just a recirc system with the totes being fed from a rubber hose off the pump. I cant remember if he uses airstones or not, but the buds speak for themselves.

 

 

Hes got airpumps and spray bars in brother......the results are impressive to say the least.

The little controller he has is the killer touch.....anyone wanting to get ken an xmas present can send me one of those

[badbillybob]

I wouldn't get that one. a bluelab guardian is a much better bet mate, does the same thing too

[zen-ken]

3 hours ago, badbillybob said:

I wouldn't get that one. a bluelab guardian is a much better bet mate, does the same thing too

 

Wow brother......thats so generous of you.....Ill send you a safe addy.....can you wrap it with a little bow

put for 'zenken xmas present' on it

 

Edited December 2, 2019 by zen-ken
a joke between friends

[badbillybob]

it looks like I gonna be redesigning this system. 

Well, I am now……………………..

And just to prove that things don't always go swimmingly ….

tonight I was sweeping up the carnage from last weeks trim when I swept between the pots I was maybe sweeping a bit hard, with a metal headed scrubber broom...trying to get the leaves that were stuck to the rough roofing felt floor, ……..you know whats coming don't you?...scrub scrub knock ............bang,,,, crack- whoosh water fukn everywhere. it was a tee fitting, and it split right down the moulding mark, so bodged it as best I could to try and stop so much escaping , and I quickly emptied the rest of the water out. All 450 odd litres...…………………... fux sakes..

FML.

[badbillybob]

whoops..... I did it again.....

Another system build is underway.

This one is a 4 pot, 3 pots for plants and one res at the end of the line.

 

First up get yourself da set of hole cutters like this, you will need one that's got a 2 inch/ 51mm cutter in it (for 40mm waste pipe tank connectors)

Next mark the centres of the hole you are going to drill with the hole cutter at both sides of the pot, leaving enough height to allow the fitting to be put in the pot and the nut inside tightened up. Beware the radiused bottom of pots. the fitting is just under 60mm diameter, so I marked the pot 50mm to the centre, where the drill goes, so the bottom of the hole is about 20mm from the bottom of the pot (marked outside the pot).

When you mark the drill hole, make sure its as close to the centre( width wise) of the pot as possible. This allows the roots to stay in the middle of the pot as the water drains back to the res.  Might be able to see my height marker on these pots (nope you cant)

Im doing the return pipework today, heres a few pointers for you, if you fancy doing something similar.

the end pieces shown in the photo below do not come as far out of the box as the tee pieces, , so make sure the bit of connecting pipe between tank connector and 90 fitting, arrowed, is longer on the 90 degree fittings than on the tee's.

I did this one like this just to show you how NOT to do it, er, yeah that's right, nothing to do with chocolate mint og brain fog- oh  no no.. Its not vitally important and the pipe will bend, but its always best not to stress pipework as it will increase the chances of stress leakage.

 

The pic above shows how I start, by connecting the tank connectors to the tees and bends. if you do a dry run, you can check the bit I was on about earlier is long enough by placing the pipework like this and checking that the ends meet up. aye? Here you can see the height difference between the 90 degree bend and tee at the back. ( I still glued the fukr together tho didn't I? ).

 

Anyway after all this you should have your tank connector to tee or 90 all solvent welded up. Now lay the pots out on the floor (making sure they will fit your tent or space, with room for oscillating fans etc)

Now put the fittings on to the pots, and measure between them. the pipe goes 30mm into each fitting, so measure the gap and add 60mm for the pipe to fit properly.

Once done and checked, these can be glued to the fittings.

A word on glueing, Make sure the pipe ends are sanded of any rough scrappy bits left after cutting, before glueing, and ALLWAYS glue both the pipe end and the inside of the fitting. then press these together in a twisting motion. wipe off the excess, but don't put it back in the pot because it wil already have started to chemically bond to the pipe and you will see that it goes a bit cloudy. dump it

Also, when you glue the sections together ALLWAYS make sure that the connectors line up with each other. The glue will set in a matter of seconds, so you don't have long. 

 

|For this system im not doing solid spray bars, because its a pain in the arse if you ever want to re-space the pots or reduce the number of them etc. Im just using hose with these 13mm fittings. the plan is to run the hose from the pump in the res and tee off to the pot. The lid of the pot will have 2 holes drilled to accept the IWS fitting (fairly tightly, with the hose passing through it, don't want any light leaks into the pot. ). One hole on either side of the net pot. 

The Y piece will go into the underside of the lid grommet so the water sprays to all 4 corners of the pot inside. ive used these before and they are as good as any spray bar.

Ive ordered a pump (hailea hx8840) and some fukn expensive flood and drain pot inner net pots (35 quid for 4 ferfuxsakes). The pump has a 19mm hose outlet, so you will need a 19mm to 13mm reducer and some proper hose clamps, stainless ones. For the fittings I always use hot water. soak the hose end in hot water till it expands and softens up, then push it firmly on to the fitting. use a small ziptie too, to hold it in place firmly. Theres not a huge amount of pressure so the zip tie will be fine, but id definitely use a clamp on the reducer. Also use a lid on the res.

 

Think that's it, any questions, fire away. I will post up some pics of the finished system, to make my rambling a bit easier to understand.

Cheers. BBB

 

Edited December 30, 2019 by badbillybob

[badbillybob]

heres another couple of shots. 

ive cut out the lids for net pots, as you can see, and Ithere is not enough room to put the grommets and y pieces in the centre of the nets.

I forgot how bloody big these net pots are (they are actually flood and drain inner pots).

So I had to offset the grommet holes for the sprayers.

2nd pic shows how it will be from the underside, aye. 

 

 

bit more progress, it all takes time and ive got lots of weed to smoke, and chocolate to eat, so enthusiasm is a bit lacking