Keeping unrooted clones in cold storage

[NezA]

Just wanted to add my experience to this thread.

 

I went away for 2 weeks at the start of August I had no one I could trust to look after my plants whilst I was away.

 

I decided to go full belt and braces in an attempt to preserve my mums and dads, I took 3 cuts from everything 1 of each was placed in the prop to root for 2 weeks and 2 backups were placed in the fridge. I then placed all my mum's and dad's in my flower room on some soaked capillary matting. I left the light off and figured they'd all be dead when I got back.

 

To my surprise upon returning home only one of the plants left in the dark was dead! 

 

I'm in a loft so temperature fluctuations really affect my environment. Because it was the middle of August I decided I didn't need any heating in the veg tent. Unfortunately it was unusually cold, being 300 miles away there wasn't anything I could do when I got back only 3 of the clones in the prop had rooted they were simply too cold.

 

I lost 2 of my male UGORG #1 F2's after not being able to nurse one back to health and another one that decided to flower and just would not reveg 6 weeks later. I raided my fridge backups and popped a couple of clones of each of the lost plants into the prop I'm happy to report 3 of 3 have now rooted and I managed to preserve all my plants thanks to this thread.

 

Even with all the positive feedback on the method here I have to admit I was still rather skeptical. But once again I have been humbled by what this plant can go through and just keep on going. What an amazing technique to have in your back pocket you never know when this knowledge will come in handy. Simply phenomenonal!

[Keye]

That's great, @NezA . I've just posted these pictures in my diary - they've been in 24 days and are pretty OK by the looks of it.

 

How did you start rooting? Did you just take them out of the fridge and then treat them as normal thereafter? I'm thinking they'll be in shock if I don't gradually bring them up to temps!? 

 

[NezA]

Yeah literally @Keye just trimmed the excess off the stem so that the cuts were normal length then followed my usual cloning method.

 

Good luck hope yours root as easy as mine did.

[Keye]

Bloody hell, it's a bit too easy! Cheers @NezA

 

You really went through a bit of an operation for those 2 weeks in August, eh?! I hope you had a great time!

[CarterCasper]

I've got to say, this has actually blown my mind, the amount of strains I've lost due to not having the correct insurance plans in place... Noted for the future. 

[Mackie]

So glad I came back to the forum. Such useful information. 

[Keye]

I never updated! I let mine go 4 months in total. I had no choice in the end; it got a bit frantic in my space.

 

Anyway, they were all mouldy and very limp. Each bag had some mould in it, but some bags hardly had any and not on the plant matter at all. I think I could have definitely gone 3 months.

 

I'm going to try again - this time I'm going to put each cutting in a piece of kitchen roll and then that in to a bag on its own.

 

As far as I can tell, it's the moisture that really fucks this up. For the first 2 months I opened the bags and wiped down the condensation inside that had built up, then back in the fridge. I stopped doing that so rigorously in the last two months due to circumstance and stoner. That's where I went wrong initially and then perhaps they'd have been very healthy for 3 months. I'm still not sure that would have done 4 months, but there we go.

 

Try again!

 

 

 

 

[Baron von greenback]

2 hours ago, Keye said:

I never updated! I let mine go 4 months in total. I had no choice in the end; it got a bit frantic in my space.

 

Anyway, they were all mouldy and very limp. Each bag had some mould in it, but some bags hardly had any and not on the plant matter at all. I think I could have definitely gone 3 months.

 

I'm going to try again - this time I'm going to put each cutting in a piece of kitchen roll and then that in to a bag on its own.

 

As far as I can tell, it's the moisture that really fucks this up. For the first 2 months I opened the bags and wiped down the condensation inside that had built up, then back in the fridge. I stopped doing that so rigorously in the last two months due to circumstance and stoner. That's where I went wrong initially and then perhaps they'd have been very healthy for 3 months. I'm still not sure that would have done 4 months, but there we go.

 

Try again!

 

 

 

Thats great to know after this grow i was going to dump all plants and start again from seed so i going to take cutting and keep the genetics going see how long they last would it be better putting them in tupperware tubs instead of bags what do you think

 

[Keye]

With the bags, you can flatten them and stop the air (which has moisture in it). But a hard case could stop crushing. Bare in mind, that the cutting needs to be massive. It's the one thing repeated in all the guides I've read. 25-30cm long type of cuts. I think what people are trying to get over is having a lot of 'cell mass' that can continue to function to a degree. I always take small cuttings when I'm cloning. The idea here is you take a big cutting and then cut down the stem when you come to root it out, reducing it's size to what might be a 'normal' size cutting.

 

If you've got room to keep several cuttings in a tub, go for it. I'm fighting for space the salad drawer at the back, where people can't see. 

[Baron von greenback]

2 hours ago, Keye said:

With the bags, you can flatten them and stop the air (which has moisture in it). But a hard case could stop crushing. Bare in mind, that the cutting needs to be massive. It's the one thing repeated in all the guides I've read. 25-30cm long type of cuts. I think what people are trying to get over is having a lot of 'cell mass' that can continue to function to a degree. I always take small cuttings when I'm cloning. The idea here is you take a big cutting and then cut down the stem when you come to root it out, reducing it's size to what might be a 'normal' size cutting.

 

If you've got room to keep several cuttings in a tub, go for it. I'm fighting for space the salad drawer at the back, where people can't see. 

Cheers i try and let you know how it gooes

[Mackie]

Right so I've got a load in a bag in the crisper atm so will update how they go. I only really need 3 weeks out of it so will report back once I've tried to root them  

[Keye]

@Mackie Great; 3 weeks should be OK.

 

There's the 'embolism' thing to overcome. When a cutting is made in a branch, what I've always heard is that an air bubble can form and therefore stop the plant from transferring nutrients up its stem. When you've put one in the fridge for so long, I presumed that would exacerbate the issue; so my thought was to remove a good half of the bottom stem and then follow my normal cloning steps.

[Baudelaire]

10 hours ago, Keye said:

There's the 'embolism' thing to overcome. When a cutting is made in a branch, what I've always heard is that an air bubble can form and therefore stop the plant from transferring nutrients up its stem. When you've put one in the fridge for so long, I presumed that would exacerbate the issue; so my thought was to remove a good half of the bottom stem and then follow my normal cloning steps.

 

This is just another grow myth. The frig tek disproves the "ebolism" (a condition found in animals) myth, as does anyone who has ever traded unrooted clones via the mail. Clones do not "ebolize" if their cut ends are left out of water. The ends dry and scar over, sealing off the exposed xylem. The cutting continues to exchange water vapor through its stomata on its leaves, and begin creating root nodules on the stem areas near the cut end, guided by auxins. As long as humidity remains near 100% the cut will not need to use its vascular system to transport water. It will simply use what it has until it grows roots again.

 

Keye's mistake(s) was 1) too much time - 90 days is the upper limit in my experience, and then expect a 70% loss; 2) too much moisture or air in the bag - do not mist, water plants well before cutting and then place cutting in a bag between a layer of paper towels, leave just enough air to create a slight pillow, but not a balloon; and possibly 3) wrong temperature or location in the fridge - back of the fridge can easily be 10F/7C colder than the door, and some storage drawers can get very cold depending on settings. Use a thermometer, and shoot for a steady 40-45F/5-7C. 

 

I've used this tek for many years now. I've had some success, i.e., gotten 2 out of 8 cuts to root, at almost 120 days from cutting, but 50-60% success regularly at 90 days, and +70% at 60 days. It's a tool in the toolbox, not perfect for every situation, but very useful as a layer of security for cherished mother plants, sustained periods away from the mother room, and sexing seedlings. I like to snip and label a couple of cuts from every seedling before sexing, toss em in the lettuce bin, and then flower the seedlings. After a month to 6 weeks, make your mom and stud selections and clone up the corresponding cuts then. No wasted space/materials cloning plants that will be culled anyway.

 

peace -b420

Edited February 2, 2022 by Baudelaire

[Keye]

Thanks for this @Baudelaire. Yes, I had always read the embolism thing in cuttings as a bit of a 'wives tale', I guess. I'm sure I read ages ago about the pressure differential inside a plant at the top and bottom; of a tree, I think maybe when I was reading about Bonsai; in that smaller trees have the same pressure differential as big trees. I've got to go and re-read something on this, now, I cannot get it straight in my mind... It's the pressure difference that can create an embolism in the xylem or somewhere, if a tree is damaged, but its easily overcome in nature. I'll go read.

I never misted them; I've seen it done in loads of YouTube videos but I just couldn't get my head around why you'd want them wetter, so I didn't do that. I went the opposite way and tried to dry out the moisture transpiring out of the plants. I will definitely put paper in side the bags next time and reduce the amount of plants in each bag. And I'm sure if I replace the paper I'll definitely do 3 months.

 

My bags were kept in the fridge drawer, in the salad draw thing. The fridge is set at 4c and the drawer keeps a very tight hug to that even with the door being opened. There's not much I can do further than that as we only have one fridge and I don't have space for another anywhere unfortunately.

 

Certainly after 2 months, they looked and felt very good to me. After the 4 months the branches were limp and had a slight spotted black patches. Gran would have said 'sooty mould' but it hadn't really taken hold and could have been general rot/necrosis type of thing. 

 

Can't wait to try again, actually! I've got some trimming to do and although I don't need them I'm going to run this again.

[Keye]

1 hour ago, Baudelaire said:

I like to snip and label a couple of cuts from every seedling before sexing, toss em in the lettuce bin, and then flower the seedlings. After a month to 6 weeks, make your mom and stud selections and clone up the corresponding cuts then. No wasted space/materials cloning plants that will be culled anyway.

 

peace -b420

 

 

..this cycle is sort of what I had in the back of my mind for mothers.