Arnold Layne Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 Interesting thread. Are you open to the possibility of the power of suggestion? Or are you really in their belief that this person can heal from a distance? False alternative, but I'll answer you anyway. Power of suggestion ~ yes, surely. But in this case, it cannot have been so. Read what I said, it was written with care to accuracy and to narrating the event as it happened. Where would suggestion come into this event? I practice self hypnosis for pain control, these days (but not back then). I'm not very good yet, but getting better at it every week. So I understand your thought about suggestion. But again, read what I said. Where is there room for a suggestive cause? The true alternative is surely, am I open to a belief in something such as "psychic" type healing. The answer would be, "Cautiously, yes ~ possibly" Simple truth is, I do not know what happened to explain the sudden end of the pain and its connection to my friend the Witch ~ I'm just stating it as it took place; my mind is open, is yours? Are you open to the thought that Science cannot explain everything, and that it could be wrong on some things it claims certainty over? NB I have not said a word about what I "believe". I have simply narrated, accurately, an event that took place. I offer no concrete explanation, I take no dogmatic position from which to explain it. I hope this clarifies my earlier post. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-KUE Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 The true alternative is surely, am I open to a belief in something such as "psychic" type healing. The answer would be, "Cautiously, yes ~ possibly" Simple truth is, I do not know what happened to explain the sudden end of the pain and its connection to my friend the Witch ~ I'm just stating it as it took place; my mind is open, is yours? Surely if she was able to suddenly end your pain you would contact her daily and ask her to repeat whatever she did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold Layne Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 Surely if she was able to suddenly end your pain you would contact her daily and ask her to repeat whatever she did? Because, for some reason, it does not work like that. Plus I never contacted her in the first place, so why should I now? Maybe it does not work like that? Look, I am simply narrating one experience, not trying to argue for or against whatever. I do NOT even pretend to understand what took place, and I certainly have no remit to try and argue for it here. Oxycodone used to all but stop my pain. But it can't now. Now it often needs a morphine top-up to slow things down. Seems even science cannot be 100% predictable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bazzad9 Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 ive just started a new book ,"why we believe what we believe" ,in the opening chapter they have an example ,this ive copied from amazon reviews "the introductory chapter introduces the basic premises of the book, using the case history of a man who riddled with cancer and is about to die in a research hospital at UCLA. Placebo injections are given, and within a week all tumors disappear, but when newspaper reports describe the ineffectiveness of the medicine the patient thought he was taking, the tumors returned. The doctor convinced the patient that a "new and improved" medication was available, and again the tumors disappeared. The FDA then pronounced the medical study a failure, and again, the tumors returned. The authors return to this story throughout the book to explain how our beliefs can deeply influence the neurobiological processes in the brain." as i said ive only just started it but this is an interesting case maybe this explains some of these cures ,or releif of illness although if memory serves you didnt know she was doing this for you untill after you felt better arnold so may not apply to you bloody interesting though ,ill try and find more on that case when ive walked the dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bazzad9 Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 Seems even science cannot be 100% predictable i think its predictable your tolerence would rise and need stronger meds arnold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold Layne Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 Great find bazzad, I believe that suggestion is an unused power that we should be using a lot more. I have been amazed at the potency of even minor self hypnosis. Its only suggestion. But its a potent force, is suggestion. After all, everything is only as it is to mind. Objective reality there may well be, but we only know of it through the hermeneutic (interpretation) of the mind. Convince the mind, the reality follows along. Interesting, no? But, as you say... although if memory serves you didnt know she was doing this for you untill after you felt better arnold so may not apply to you Indeed so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UBERCHEESE Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 If you believe this you truly are stupid. I do mean to be rude. Why can these healers only heal stuff that can get better on its own? wheres the reattachment of limbs? wheres the restoration of sight? etc etc. Whys is is it so limited to a select few, all who happen to believe in this stuff in the first place? I think the most telling thing is, people who use healers will ALWAYS go to a GP or the hospital. doesn't seem they have that much faith after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L'Emmerdeur Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 E=mc2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bazzad9 Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 people who use healers will ALWAYS go to a GP or the hospital. doesn't seem they have that much faith after all. unfortunatly this simply isnt true ,many kids and and adults have died relying on these beliefs ,if they all went to the doctors as well anyway it wouldnt be a problem h ttp://www.lehighvalleylive.com/breaking-news/index.ssf/2013/05/pa_parents_charged_with_murder.html this is the second child that has died in the hands of these parents "fter their 2-year-old son died of untreated pneumonia in 2009, faith-healing advocates Herbert and Catherine Schaible promised a judge they would not let another sick child go without medical care. But now they’ve lost an 8-month-old to what a prosecutor called “eerily similar” circumstances. And instead of another involuntary manslaughter charge, they’re now charged with third-degree murder. “We believe in divine healing, that Jesus shed blood for our healing and that he died on the cross to break the devil’s power,” Herbert Schaible, 44, told Philadelphia homicide detectives after their ninth child, Brandon, died in April. Medicine, he said, “is against our religious beliefs.” just one example of many many Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-KUE Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 just one example of many many nutters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasquatch Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 I think there is a lot more to the placebo effect than it's given credit for. That UCLA case you quote sounds like the one cited by Michael Talbot in the Holographic Universe, where he also details sufferers of multiple personality syndrome who exhibited symptoms of serious illnesses when overtaken by one personality which instantly vanished when that personality was replaced by another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bazzad9 Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 trouble is with calling them all nutters or stupid etc is for a lot of them ,christian scientists for example are raised that way ,its all they know ,they have been indoctrinated since child hood ,they have no access to our world be it books ,internet or just peers some of them yes are just plain fucking dumb and ignorant ,but if all you have known ,read ,heard etc says one thing and you have no way of knowing the alternative or knowing how to find it it must be hard ,and we cant blame them obviously the case i linked to and others simular are slightly different ,but it all starts at childhhod for most Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill cooper Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 I do believe that the human body has a ability to self heal that we don't understand yet but its got nothing what so ever to do with healers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bazzad9 Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 I think there is a lot more to the placebo effect than it's given credit for. That UCLA case you quote sounds like the one cited by Michael Talbot in the Holographic Universe, where he also details sufferers of multiple personality syndrome who exhibited symptoms of serious illnesses when overtaken by one personality which instantly vanished when that personality was replaced by another. "The authors return to this story throughout the book to explain how our beliefs can deeply influence the neurobiological processes in the brain." when i get to this bit mate ill let you know what his ideas are certainly interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratdog Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 In James Randi`s book, The Faith Healer, he says the Christian healers in America blame the victims themselves for not having faith if they are not healed by "the power of god" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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