Sickly Plants

[Om]

Here is a sickly one, started as above, now at day 35 and looking frankly Sick!

I would have expected twice the height and girth by now, with twice the bud.

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Whats the PH like could it be blocking out the nutes ?

[Arnold Layne]

HS - no worries M8. Yup looks the same huh?

Organicman - I aint a clue! Ph - Wo-oo, a bit too much science for my feeble brain I'm afraid .

But

As it happens things are steadilly improving following the intro of Alg-a-mic. More so when I look in the veg room where things are getting frankly frisky, by gad sir

So I think it is here that the probs start. It would seem that there is some sort of deficiency going on, seeing as they are now improving. If there was lockout I would imagine that the new feeding regime would have failed or even made things worse?

So peeps, with some caution and tentativeness I would say: get to grips with teh young uns in yer veg rooms. Those in 12/12 may or may not respond, but all will produce some buds of some sort.

I am going to follow one of the newly invigorated young uns through 12/12 with me cam. She'll be going in in about 2 days I reckon. So we'll see if I've got it right......

[HopefullySoon]

Cool Arnie , nice to hear your plants seem to be improving with alg-a-mic .

I would agree it is when flowering begins the prob starts , I have never had an mg def in veg yet (had the first crop in flowering tho) so i know it cant be that . It has occured noticably both times at around the 3 week flower mark (give/take a day or 2 )

What ML / L are you feeding in at ? , I have to try something different soon , or my plants will be as bald , as a bald thing !

Hopefully Soon

Ps : I'd still love to know what it is def in (if ot1 looks in) , it has me beat still

Edited December 8, 2004 by HopefullySoon

[Arnold Layne]

bald , as a bald thing !

, they'll look like me then

The Alg-a-mic is going in at 4ml to the l., every water.

[HopefullySoon]

Just a thought

I'm (thanx to a friend) beginning to suspect that because I live in a hard water area , Ca may be locking out Mg . I know allmix should buffer it , but I have a sneaky feeling it isnt (in my case).

What kinda water area do you guys live in ?

Hopefully Soon

[Citizen]

I have the exact same problem going on in my grow. I've also given up trying to fix it and hope the plants make it to full maturation. About 3 weeks left now.

I'm thinking mine might be due to one of the following:

a) Low temps from the cool draft. My shed temps are fine but the cool air comes in from the outside.

B) Overwatering causing lockout

c) Air circultion or insuffcient air exchange

(pics can be found on page seven of my grow diary)

http://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=29696&st=60

[Arnold Layne]

I aint on my own then. Phew!

Low temps is certainly looking like one possibility.

Overwatering? Not here, anyway. My back is no way up to it!!

Air circ? Hmmm, I'm pretty well sorted there. And given the set up has been working for over a year, and this problem being quite recent...... but this and cold air???? Not sure.

I think the prob may be in the soil. Perhaps an old batch or two? Anyhoo, I also think it needs dealing with from day 1 in the veg room. I am now giving all plants a dose of Alg-a-mic and Rootjuice as soon as I pot them up after they are rooted. This mix is used again as and when they need it in veg. So far (but its early days yet), things look very much better. There is total vigour in th veg room now. Really healthy looking plants, leaves all "up", glossy and dark rich green.

Let's see how 12/12 hits them. I have put two in yesterday. Piccies as soon as poss. Fingers crossed.

[Citizen]

I live in a hard water area. I did a check on my ph and it seems to be around 7. (6 is optimum). I would have thought the soil would buffer though.

My Allmix was more than 6 months old when I potted up.

This is my first grow so I'm not sure, mayby the leaves do drop and turn yellow mid to late flowering?

Anyway, I think it's to late for me to worry. I just hope they last another couple of weeks. If not I may harvest early (if they start looking too bad).

So now I'm thinking for my next grow to get some Alga-mic, use fresh soil and try to capture rainwater.

I might try to draw air in from the house too, but thats not a viable option at the mo.

Good luck all

[oldtimer1]

Can't tell a thing with your BW pic Arnie the one below is general under nourishment, There is absolutely no sign of Mg deficiency in any of the pics in this thread. Sorry but adding more Mg to plants in this state will make the problem much worse.

I think the problem is the compost, not water or Mg. Arnie did you buy this compost from a different source, or is it more than 2 or at max 3 months old? HS same question to you.

I’m going to quote a couple of posts I wrote recently, I’ll get back once you have replied. If its what I think I’ll reply in more detail.

JI composts should be used within 2 to 3 months of being made.

Edited to add all composts should be used within 3 months. Soil based go off the worst, they can be brought back sometimes with products like agralan revive but there is a substantial risk with compost over 6 months old...

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As I said last night. I know people who grow a third each of allmix, JI#3 and perlite. Others who use a half half mix. They swear by it and produce some of the best weed possible its not totally organic is all. Any good compost will grow good cannabis.

A lot of cases where things go seriously wrong is old compost that has gone sour or has become infect with pythium or fusarium. It always pays to get as fresh compost as you can.

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Quotes from the can you mix JI with allmix.

[HopefullySoon]

Hi Ot1

I got the allmix from togs , He had run out and got another delivery of it in and this is what I have got now (I had the same prob with the bag before as well , on my first grow then togs ran out and restocked ) , I have had it 2 weeks before I used it . It is now about 5 weeks old what I have (since I got It From him)

I know it hasn't been keep unused for months at my end .

Peace

HS

Edited December 14, 2004 by HopefullySoon

[Citizen]

HS,

At what day did you harvest your GD?

[Owt]

I got a similar if not same prob http://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=31468&st=10 some 1/2 decent pics of the problem, it will be coldish when the lights are off. Some help appreciatted.

[oldtimer1]

Ok HS that blows that out of the water, your compost is fresh.

A plant needs to build as large a rootmass as possible from an early stage, this gives sturdy plants full of vitality, this is why when growing in compost we recommend starting in small pots and as soon as the compost is full of roots pot on to a larger pot. By doing this in stages until you reach the final pot size you maximise the root mass for any given final pot size. You get many times the root mass you would if you planted a small cutting/seedling in a final pot. Once the plant goes into flowering mode it uses the roots it made to build the parts needed to reproduce its self, if the roots are inadequate for the job the plant will sacrifice parts of its self to make the reproductive parts.

Out of interest another problem with planting small plants in final pots, is the plants roots only occupy a tiny portion of the compost, so the unoccupied part tends to become anaerobic inhibiting new growth and encouraging the multiplication of pathogenic fungi and bacteria, the larger the pot the worse the problem.

In the early days of cannabis growing indoors stoners tended to try and grow like this as its easy and its what you would do if you were planting outdoors in soil, well as we have said compost is not soil, its a medium that is made to act in place of soil in an enclosed container. The early books on cannabis growing answered the problem by advising that the compost was mixed half and half with perlite, rather than the practice of potting as used by the horticultural industry world wide. So the myth still abounds today in the cannabis world today, that cannabis needs loads of drainage. Its not true.

HS the symptoms you are are seeing, are of a plant in decline, stripping all the elements out of the old leaves from the bottom of the plants sunleaves. Its something you do see anyway, but not to your extent and as early. It means the plant as a whole is not receiving enough nutrition. Its ability to do so comes from several things, 1.] that it has sufficient root mass, 2.] that the root mass is given adequate nutrient for the plants needs 3.]assuming you have an adequate root mass, that the planting medium is making the nutrients available to them. The final thing, low temperatures will arrest root development, neither the root ball or the ambient air temperature should never drop below 16c.

HS if you used the potting on method I still suspect your problem stems from a compost problem. I know Arnie uses potting on as when he first used it reported back on it and how much better it was, again his symptoms point to a compost problem.

ie he says nothing has changed but he is seeing weak and slower top growth in early veg, this has to be poor root development. Strong root development and maintaining a healthy root mass give a sturdy top structure. A good fresh compost should give this without any additions apart from water. The fact Arnie is giving Alg-A-Mic at maximum recommended dose for lightmix and seeing some results says something is very wrong, it should not be needed at all with allmix.

Arnie I think you should send a sample of an effected plants rootball if not several samples direct to BioBizz tell them about your problem, tell them you have been using their products for years ask them to analyse the compost, they do have a lab it could be a root pathogen, a nutrient problem with the compost. Give them a link to this topic as others are having the same problems and and ask them to answer in this thread.

Out and Nowt I’ll look at your topic later and see if I can add anything that can help.

[Arnold Layne]

Thanks OT1.

I think I will indeed send a rootball sample off to Bio-bizz. The worst affected plants are due out in a fortnight or so, so the new year should see me getting round to that.

It could be old compost. No way of knowing - it comes from the local grow shop, I know he had it no more than 2 weeks when I got it....... but where'd he get it?......

Atr the moment I seem to havbe got things fairly much back to health, I think. The fact that this is via major Alg-a-mic feeds, and top-line Bloom and Gro doses, would ineed support the lack of nutrition theory. Hey-ho, the joys of growin' yer own....

[HopefullySoon]

Hi Guys And Gals

Out of interest another problem with planting small plants in final pots, is the plants roots only occupy a tiny portion of the compost, so the unoccupied part tends to become anaerobic inhibiting new growth and encouraging the multiplication of pathogenic fungi and bacteria, the larger the pot the worse the problem.

I pot on in stages ... with the Gen Daughter being ind , I go up in the following sizes 3" - 6" - 10" , I always pot up when strong roots are showing at the pots plug holes , and go 12/12 three/four days after seeing them there in their final pots .

HS the symptoms you are are seeing, are of a plant in decline, stripping all the elements out of the old leaves from the bottom of the plants sunleaves. Its something you do see anyway, but not to your extent and as early. It means the plant as a whole is not receiving enough nutrition. Its ability to do so comes from several things, 1.] that it has sufficient root mass, 2.] that the root mass is given adequate nutrient for the plants needs 3.]assuming you have an adequate root mass, that the planting medium is making the nutrients available to them. The final thing, low temperatures will arrest root development, neither the root ball or the ambient air temperature should never drop below 16c.

1) I'm assuming that I'm doing this right , as i said earlier on

2) I'm following your Bio Bizz shedule to the letter , again , I'm assuming this is ok .

3) I cant comment on this, I feel this is where the problem lies tho , taking everything else into account .

4) I run 12/12 lights out 1830-0630 , during this time the house is under the control of the central heating , I pull warm air directly off the radiator (The ducting is 4" off the rad) so I know that the temps never drop below 16 deg C anytime .

ie he says nothing has changed but he is seeing weak and slower top growth in early veg, this has to be poor root development. Strong root development and maintaining a healthy root mass give a sturdy top structure. A good fresh compost should give this without any additions apart from water. The fact Arnie is giving Alg-A-Mic at maximum recommended dose for lightmix and seeing some results says something is very wrong, it should not be needed at all with allmix

As soon as arnie said his plants were improving with it , I bought a bottle of algamic , The new stems are not showing any more red stems , new foliage is looking very glossy and healthy .

Thank you for the help

Hopefully Soon