Hir Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 (edited) Do you mean the ratio by which you can find reality constantly refering itself to ... (ChF ...oh, okay that my personal final piece, fits together now, ...) Edited May 3, 2007 by Hir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utokia Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 nice thread :!: Some interesting reading on fate/free will and religion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predestination Personally - I am a synchronicity fan. If a god/creator appeared out of the bubbling chaos due to the unfurling infinite complexity of reality - then so be it. This is no less difficult to believe than the notion that reality and matter popped out of the void without any deity or god-figure. However it is so typically human to say that we are made in his image. Human conciousness IMHO arose because of cognitive complexity. The human brain needed a meta-system to effectively manage the complex system of the human body - particularly that mutation that makes them a bit top-heavy loike. We may have a similar meta-system to manage the planet's complexity (Gaia?) as well as the universe. As a result - we have created our own 'evolutionary' process and have started to pick and probe at the fabric of reality. In classic sci-fi style - it wouldn't surprise me however if we (some scientists somewhere in a cyclotron) manage to recreate the big-bang and wipe out reality in the blink of an eye (and create the next one)... Anyone read Lovecraft? [O]utside the ordered universe [is] that amorphous blight of nethermost confusion which blasphemes and bubbles at the center of all infinity—the boundless daemon sultan Azathoth, whose name no lips dare speak aloud, and who gnaws hungrily in inconceivable, unlighted chambers beyond time and space amidst the muffled, maddening beating of vile drums and the thin monotonous whine of accursed flutes. and It was an All-in-One and One-in-All of limitless being and self — not merely a thing of one Space-Time continuum, but allied to the ultimate animating essence of existence's whole unbounded sweep — the last, utter sweep which has no confines and which outreaches fancy and mathematics alike. It was perhaps that which certain secret cults of earth have whispered of as YOG-SOTHOTH, and which has been a deity under other names; that which the crustaceans of Yuggoth worship as the Beyond-One, and which the vaporous brains of the spiral nebulae know by an untranslatable Sign... If we are going to invent Gods - lets use our imagination!! I need a spliff now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodhisattva Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 It fascinates me how people ponder the nature of existence with only what they see before their eyes and in the case of thiests what they don't see before their eyes. The Universal Constant governs the strength of the molecular bonds between atoms and is incredibly precise to the point where if it wavered either way the universe simply could not exist. Like many things in the universe, there is no reason why it should be so perfctly tuned except to facilitate existence as we know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utokia Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 It fascinates me how people ponder the nature of existence with only what they see before their eyes and in the case of thiests what they don't see before their eyes. The Universal Constant governs the strength of the molecular bonds between atoms and is incredibly precise to the point where if it wavered either way the universe simply could not exist. Like many things in the universe, there is no reason why it should be so perfctly tuned except to facilitate existence as we know it. It could be down to our lack of imagination... it seems that we tend to build on existing belief systems, the paradigm shifts in our collective imagination are very rare. Every generation likes to believe that they are instrumental in a 'turning point' of evolution... but we are only allowed to imagine within certain constraints - otherwise we are branded insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drgthumb Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 In my opinion it is enough just to accept that I know nothing and that I believe. Just don't ask me to expand on this as I know nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gert Lush Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 It could be down to our lack of imagination... it seems that we tend to build on existing belief systems, the paradigm shifts in our collective imagination are very rare. Every generation likes to believe that they are instrumental in a 'turning point' of evolution... but we are only allowed to imagine within certain constraints - otherwise we are branded insane. Yup, I like that utokia, I often wonder at what totally "unoriginal" thinkers we are. However, I don't think we're necessarily branded insane when we think a bit outside the box. It just usually goes so WAAAY over peoples' heads, we might as well be from Alpha Centauri. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utokia Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 Edited to add I'd be interested to hear if anyone else is in the same boat. Just to get back to the point and to answer the original question. Yes. Kind of. Although I am not concerned that I haven't decided which side of the fence to sit on by this stage in my life. I think it is OK to spend most of your life pondering and trying to eliminate the options, and re-evaluate the probability of one creation myth over another... that could well be the meaning of life - to contemplate it... Gert - yeah mad - insane - crazy - freaky - all of these words are used to describe ideas and concepts that are clearly not insane, just a bit less 'normal' Buckminster Fuller is a classic insane/genius type - with a social conscience - love him I think creativity - not art per se is important. The creative urge - the urge to create. Love is a consequence of the creative urge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Percy Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 nope - different boat altogether but travelling the same waters dude i think we're ALL gods daily contact with my brethren dieties leads to belief in them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hir Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 It fascinates me how people ponder the nature of existence with only what they see before their eyes and in the case of thiests what they don't see before their eyes. The Universal Constant governs the strength of the molecular bonds between atoms and is incredibly precise to the point where if it wavered either way the universe simply could not exist. Like many things in the universe, there is no reason why it should be so perfctly tuned except to facilitate existence as we know it. How do we know that for certain, till it happens, your assuming that in the very final analysis your science is correct, you've over extrapolated and it aint a straight line there any more ....??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hir Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 nope - different boat altogether but travelling the same waters dude i think we're ALL gods daily contact with my brethren dieties leads to belief in them Are the s.o.g. having thier annual breakfast trip this year ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Percy Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 Are the s.o.g. having thier annual breakfast trip this year ... "Calling PBR street gang. PBR street gang, this is Almighty. Can you read me? Over." :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zadtop Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 Just my 2p 1. We are physically no more than rather evolved monkeys 2. We were impregnated with genes of what we'd call extraterristrials (aliens) and this created our 'spirituallity'. 3. We are in a real tricky situation cause monkeys mixed with higher (out of this world) genes causes a fucked up head. blah blah blah, sorry..... doh I have so much more to add but hey, I'm too depressed to press this keynoard keys.... Just that: never mind, what a pity, oh dear. blah de blah oh great I'm annoynouse so u all can think I'm looney never mind I KNOW iaam. ps... been on beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father McPot Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 i think we're ALL gods How do you define Gods in this context? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninorc Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 it wouldn't surprise me however if we (some scientists somewhere in a cyclotron) manage to recreate the big-bang and wipe out reality in the blink of an eye (and create the next one)...Ddue, were you watching Horizon the other night? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninorc Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 Just my 2p1. We are physically no more than rather evolved monkeys 2. We were impregnated with genes of what we'd call extraterristrials (aliens) and this created our 'spirituallity'. 3. We are in a real tricky situation cause monkeys mixed with higher (out of this world) genes causes a fucked up head. 2. explains the missing link, but if we were apes why would the sons of god want to mate with the daughters of man (as in Genesis)? Or do you think that the impregnation didn't happen through sexual intercourse, but is the result of laboratory experiment? If so, was the purpose to create a slave race and, if so, what's the use of this 'spirituality' you mention? Do you simply mean conscience ('cos that would work in terms of subjugation?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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