Atheist, Agnostic, Believer ?

[maryjane]

I find 'Just Being' is enough, as for religion , thats dogma

spiritual belief , is accepting you have a belief , if only in ones self at its start spectrum, and maybe incorporated other parts of belief , therefore becomes a belief of anothers concept.

its all to confusing on the scale of logic

but Just being content within ones own belief and understanding , warts and all, suffices for some.

[Guest Gert Lush]

there is no higher purpose to a random series of events, this is the point where the human race gets it all so badly wrong, we are just the product of a random series of events - looking for meaning where there is none , deal with that and your life will be so much more rewarding because you'll be able to see it for what it really is - a short sweet accident every moment of which should be savoured.

Just a couple of thoughts that your approach has me wondering about, Lizard,

1) Why do you characterise the accident as "Sweet".

2) Why are you saying it "should" be savoured. Surely that will depend completely on the chemicals?

For some people, they'll think they're savouring it (they're not of course - it's just the inevitable outcome of an accident), others will think they're "not savouring" it, again it's not up to them, it's just a predetermined sequence of events.

So all this "relish sweet life cause it's meaningless" type philosophy, actually turns out to sound a bit like moralising.

In fact it reminds me a bit of Stalinistic "workers celebrating increase in steel production", because they....erm, should.

IOW, the instant you use the word "should", you are automatically suggesting some kind of "meaning", otherwise why "should" any state be viewed as superior to any other?

[ninorc]

This may be relevant. Religion is obviously the cause of a lot of strife, but the philosophical core of all religions is the same. That we should get along with one another:

Confucianism

Do not do to others what you would not like yourself. Then there will be no resentment against you, either in the family or in the state. Analects 12:2

Buddhism

Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful. Udana-Varga 5,1

Christianity

All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye so to them; for this is the law and the prophets. Matthew 7:1

Hinduism

This is the sum of duty; do naught onto others what you would not have them do unto you. Mahabharata 5,1517

Islam

No one of you is a believer until he desires for his brother that which he desires for himself. Sunnah

Judaism

What is hateful to you, do not do to your fellowman. This is the entire Law; all the rest is commentary. Talmud, Shabbat 3id

Taoism

Regard your neighbor's gain as your gain, and your neighbor's loss as your own loss. Tai Shang Kan Yin P'ien

Zoroastrianism

That nature alone is good which refrains from doing another whatsoever is not good for itself. Dadisten-I-dinik, 94,5

[georgio]

I confess - I am a professional religious person. But I don't think I'm soft in the head, moronic or any of the other charming epiphets posted above Mind you, as a priest I'm well used to tirades of anti-religious sentiment! As it happens though, I think my "faith" is very different from what most of you appear to think contemporary religious/Christian faith is.

The doctrine of "Free will" is by and large regarded as heretical in most (but not all) serious Christian circles. The Protestants certainly didn't like it! Both Luther and Calvin wrote hefty tomes defining the Protestant position which is pretty much in accord with the teaching of Augustine (Bishop of Hippo, not the Roman Catholic missionary sent to Britain to tame the English church). On the other hand, Wesley and his followers embraced Arminianism which does indeed peach "free will".

Presonally, I don't find the term useful at all. We are not free, we are bound by our human nature and all its limitations. Our choices aren't "free", they're "human", determined by our nature. But then again, I am very much aware that my views are largely largely stained with calvinism.

As a point of interest, Protestantism should encourage free individual enquiry. After all, a central tenet of the Reformers was the duty of private judgement.

Moving away from the soapbox, I feel a rant coming on........

Greetings Father , Don't you find that people who don't believe in God when debating the issue of his existence , have a tendency to mock us from all sides and basically tell us that we are just delusional human beings with romantic fetishes of existing after we die. You know what, everybody has a right to their opinion and If you don't believe in God I wouldn't feel that you any lesser a human being , as the choice is yours. I do feel sometimes that because we do believe this makes non believers who cannot see what god has written on their hearts become very aggressive towards them that do. Peace and love to anyone you don't believe in God and to also the ones that do

[Scribb|e]

Hmm, I wonder if any of the guys that wrote that stuff above had access to a good copyright lawyer?

It's kinda like 'Kennedy Fried Chicken'.

[Owt]

This may be relevant. Religion is obviously the cause of a lot of strife, but the philosophical core of all religions is the same. That we should get along with one another:

Confucianism

Do not do to others what you would not like yourself. Then there will be no resentment against you, either in the family or in the state. Analects 12:2

Buddhism

Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful. Udana-Varga 5,1

Christianity

All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye so to them; for this is the law and the prophets. Matthew 7:1

Hinduism

This is the sum of duty; do naught onto others what you would not have them do unto you. Mahabharata 5,1517

Islam

No one of you is a believer until he desires for his brother that which he desires for himself. Sunnah

Judaism

What is hateful to you, do not do to your fellowman. This is the entire Law; all the rest is commentary. Talmud, Shabbat 3id

Taoism

Regard your neighbor's gain as your gain, and your neighbor's loss as your own loss. Tai Shang Kan Yin P'ien

Zoroastrianism

That nature alone is good which refrains from doing another whatsoever is not good for itself. Dadisten-I-dinik, 94,5

Same shit different wrapper, just like a pack of custard cream biscuits.

[Lizard]

Just a couple of thoughts that your approach has me wondering about, Lizard,

1) Why do you characterise the accident as "Sweet".

2) Why are you saying it "should" be savoured. Surely that will depend completely on the chemicals?

For some people, they'll think they're savouring it (they're not of course - it's just the inevitable outcome of an accident), others will think they're "not savouring" it, again it's not up to them, it's just a predetermined sequence of events.

So all this "relish sweet life cause it's meaningless" type philosophy, actually turns out to sound a bit like moralising.

In fact it reminds me a bit of Stalinistic "workers celebrating increase in steel production", because they....erm, should.

IOW, the instant you use the word "should", you are automatically suggesting some kind of "meaning", otherwise why "should" any state be viewed as superior to any other?

if I really gave a toss about any of this I suppose I'd have an answer to that .

[Guest Gert Lush]

if I really gave a toss about any of this I suppose I'd have an answer to that .

Oh... don't you?

Oh well, never mind!

@maryjane. Very nicely put.

[Father McPot]

This may be relevant. Religion is obviously the cause of a lot of strife, but the philosophical core of all religions is the same. That we should get along with one another:

Apart from two in the list ignorethat idea completely.

[Guest Blabblabberbab]

AFAIC Booj and FF's posts tick all the boxes for me.

The one crucial thing I think is missing from this thread is the admission of human ego. What is being hinted towards is that we are 'more special' (for want of a better phrase) than all other living organisms. Art and Love are the sticking points in this thread, is a bees honeycombe art? in my view, yes. Is a pairing for life between some birds and animals love? in my view, yes.

we are not special.

B

[Father McPot]

we are not special.

Ok, but we are unique.

We cannot co-exist with the earth. We pollute, destroy, kill and mess up anything/everything. Other animals (and rainforest natives) can do all these things without fucking up the planet.

[Bodhisattva]

Some of us are special, the rest of you are just here to make up the numbers.

Boojam's about got it, the only smart thing to do is sit on the fence, all religions are bad, including science. The more you look at the universe though the more you come to realise that there is some kind intelligence at work, this world is most definitely not an accident, life is not an accident. Consider the universal constant if nothing else. All I can say, however, is that if God exists then the chances are that I am He. You too.

[Chris P]

So your a believer in agnosticism, having changed from atheism.

I went through this debate with myself a few months back.

I decided I'm a deist (I believe in God who created the Universe but he doesn't involve himself with it).

I think this way is best, as you're not uttering the words 'I don't believe in God' just in case he looks down on you and says "Suffer my wrath non-believer".

Also, you are the benefiting from the power of belief and with it you can imagine a better life and believe that it is possible and make it happen. In a way you are making your own destiny, otherwise you don't get anywhere with disbelief.

Then you also have the added advantages of knowing your beliefs are not comprised of bullshit stories, I consider it the 'Open Source' of religion. Yes, I am saying that there is a God, but if anybody wants to argue I'll just ask them where the Universe came from and won't accept the 'Big Bang' answer.

Deist (practicing worship using Cannabis)

I also use 'The Force' as well, as tought to me by Jedi Master Yoda as I sometimes get fed up of being plugged into 'The Matrix'.

[Hir]

Some of us are special, the rest of you are just here to make up the numbers.

Boojam's about got it, the only smart thing to do is sit on the fence, all religions are bad, including science. The more you look at the universe though the more you come to realise that there is some kind intelligence at work, this world is most definitely not an accident, life is not an accident. Consider the universal constant if nothing else. All I can say, however, is that if God exists then the chances are that I am He. You too.

whats the universal constant got to do with owt, its not 42 is it, can't remember

[Chris P]

whats the universal constant got to do with owt, its not 42 is it, can't remember

The Universal Constant is 420 mate, not 42

I think you must have been thinking of the 'Lost' show on Skyone.

Edited May 3, 2007 by ChrystalFarmer