At What Point Is The Soul Created?

[Guest Gert Lush]

Hm, "souls"... always an interesting question, FD.

One of the things that's never really rested easy with me, is where they all come from. I mean the world's population has exploded, and I mean exploded exponentially in the last century.

There's probably more than a million times as many "souls" as when the word was first used.

Personally, I like Gurdjieff's tongue-in-cheek approach:

“In west - your world - is belief that man have soul, given by God. Not so. Nothing given by God, only Nature give. And Nature only give possibility for soul, not give soul. Must acquire soul through work. ... Even your religion - western religion - have this phrase ‘Know thyself.’ This phrase most important in all religions. When begin know self already begin have possibility become genuine man. So first thing must learn is know self .... If do this, then will be like acorn that not become tree–fertilizer. Fertilizer which go back in ground and become possibility for future man.”

[tsk]

One of the things that's never really rested easy with me, is where they all come from. I mean the world's population has exploded, and I mean exploded exponentially in the last century.

There's probably more than a million times as many "souls" as when the word was first used.

yips, but theres a lot less tress, plants, insects, wildlife and "nature" in general. maybe out non-physical equasion (souls) have previously enjoyed a myriad of physical forms. further still, the relatively recent boom in humans may be the ethereal pieces wanting a chance to have a big meat suit before they become obsolete models!

as from where they come from, i reckon we all know but can fathom it in our tiny salty brains whilst upon this plane.

and as for at what point is the soul created, id say your as well asking at what point is salt created. for me the answers are pretty much identical.

good topic FD

[Greeny]

Great thread and great new sub-forum...

If the names/explanations we give to everything we experience/think about are human created concepts (which I believe they are) then surely, an individuals 'soul' is created when the individual decides to believe that they have one?

I guess you can tell which side of the fence I sit on.

[EnigmaticOne]

Buddha reckoned that the soul enters the body at the end of the third month of pregnancy which is also the point at which many women miscarry presumeably because a soul hasn't entered the foetus.

Before the end of the third month of pregnancy the foetus is still developing but by about the 12th week all the internal organs are formed. It would make sense that the soul would be present at this time or from this time onwards, it fits with the physical formation of the foetus. From 12 weeks onwards the baby has a more human form.

I dunno what I think about souls tho.

edit to add by that I mean I am not too sure of the definition of a soul, I always believed that the "soul" or person starts to exist with a heartbeat. Which is really early in pregnancy.

Edited July 4, 2007 by EnigmaticOne

[water]

great post really good read

some interesting opinions and views

not sure where i stand on this 1

ill just accept this life for wat it is and hope theres something better afterwards

water

[Chris P]

So who is the knower that knows nothing ?

And how does this knower know?

Is it through thinking or through feeling

or is it beyond both

that the unknown becomes known?

whatever it is it sure makes you smile

The knower who knows nothing must have great difficulty living in life.

Imagine not knowing how to talk, drive, cook, even knowing where the toilet is ffs.

The knower that knows nothing is in the womb, although there are a few about where I grew up.

I've forgot more than some people know, but they still know something.

I would hate to think after all those years at college & uni that I know nothing

So I knew nothing before I went & nothing when I left, what do exam grades mean then?

[road]

Here is some ideas from an Irish guy who has had too much time to think

If you believe in God:

You can be sure of the existence of soul.

Here is an age old point of view on souls. This was written around 1000 B.C. It comes from the book of Psalms.

It says that God "knit me together in my mother's womb". You can probably take from this that the soul was created from the moment of conception. God knowing everything would have known about you before he created the world. So it looks like our starting point is right at conception, but I could be wrong.

That of course is bad news for aborted babies. if you believe the soul starts at conception, then you have to say abortion is a form of murder.

Hitler murdered 6 million Jews, but since 1973 America has murdered 30 million or more pre-born babies.

As for IVF, the baby grows outside the womb just as it does inside the womb. So if you believe we have souls, yes IVF babies also have souls.

As for where souls go, just ask anyone who listens to heavy metal.

One last interesting point is that Jesus clearly said He existed in the past, before He became human for a short time. Of course Christians believe Jesus is not human, he became human because God chose to reveal Himself right there and then in 0 A.D. The human soul probably did not exist before conception from the Christian point of view

If you don't believe in God:

If you don't believe you were created by God, then it is hard to believe the soul will go anywhere after death. The only life that is real is the life we see around us today. It is hard to see how there could be an after-life or a before-life without there being some intelligent design (God) behind that mysterious realm.

Atheists usually do not believe in the existence of soul. Having said all that, there are so many beliefs about soul even from people who don't believe in an afterlife that you will find some who do believe in a soul.

If you believe in reincarnation:

Plato believed in reincarnation, but there is a big problem with reincarnation... there are so many extra souls these days than there used to be. So where are all the new souls coming from?

As for what I believe: when people die their souls will be judged by God, who sees all the wrong and right that they have done during their lives. If they have repented of their sins and accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, they will inherit eternal life in Heaven. I am convinced this is true from reading the bible and reading up on it a lot. I also have my doubts about evolution. The athiest will believe in evolution because what else can they believe? But for those who believe in God and soul, these are beliefs that really don' need evolution.

[Arnold Layne]

If by "having a soul" we are meant to understand that the soul is a "thing", a "Part" of our make-up, then I do not believe in souls.

However, I do believe an individual is just as much soul as they are body.

Its not a constituent part, its an essential characteristic of the whole.

[muffin123]

i dont think we are born/concieved with a soul. a soul is something you earn! you have to prove you can actually look after one.

remember a soul is for life, not just for christmas!

[Yoda]

our soul is eternal

[Yoda]

Hmm i dont believe in god, not that i disbelieve in him per say, i just dissociate myself from the term due to the yoinking of the term by mainstream religions, im agnostic.

If you don't believe you were created by God, then it is hard to believe the soul will go anywhere after death.

Why? - i can still belive in the laws of thermodynamics amoungst other things can't i? why should energy be permenantly destroyed?

The only life that is real is the life we see around us today. It is hard to see how there could be an after-life or a before-life without there being some intelligent design (God) behind that mysterious realm.

Why? - I dont believe that what i see is the all encompassing view of everything that exists near me? Just because i cant experience it doesnt mean that im unwilling to think of the possibility.

If you believe in reincarnation:

Plato believed in reincarnation, but there is a big problem with reincarnation... there are so many extra souls these days than there used to be. So where are all the new souls coming from?

This seems to be assuming an individuality of souls without any proof, and also, even suuming this is correct the universe is a big ol place, with a lot of souls.

As for what I believe: when people die their souls will be judged by God, who sees all the wrong and right that they have done during their lives. If they have repented of their sins and accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, they will inherit eternal life in Heaven. I am convinced this is true from reading the bible and reading up on it a lot. I also have my doubts about evolution. The athiest will believe in evolution because what else can they believe? But for those who believe in God and soul, these are beliefs that really don' need

HAH!