Do psychedelics connect us to some deep spiritual plane or are we victims of the limitations of our own minds?

[oldleafybeard1]

Its just kind of something I always find myself considering and certain experiences ive had with substances such as mescaline, mushrooms, salvia and to a lesser extent I suppose LSD. While tripping on San Pedro I saw the whole room split in half in front of me and I heard a voice clearly speaking to me, at the time it felt divine and a deep connection to reality which highlighted my attachment to it perfectly. Mushrooms I always found a bit more chaotic but also like I was visiting a familiar place with pretty weird distortions visually which put me off doing them so much. I took this chocolate once with a synthetic trip (ive forgotten the name to be honest it was just one of those 2-ht or whatever it was) anyway the trip was super dark and I felt like I was in this strange horror setting and I was dying, I was quite used to similar feelings while tripping on other things so it didnt totally creep me out too much but it was consistant and felt like it was teaching and showing me death and therefore life, I felt on that trip like I had solved a massive riddle the universe had posed at me and for the briefest of moments the answer to any question I wanted was at my finngertips and some weird mainframe was availiable to me. I had this really strong feeling that I had exited reality and somehow interacted with somthing then re-entered reality and password locked this other realm some how. It was so strange. 

 

Anyway I dont really bother tripping so much anymore although I did recently have a very light shroom experience a week ago and its just got me thinking about this subject again. For me in those moments the exoerience was of something only able to be described as divine, however is this divinity just an extra function our brain is capable of. I was thinking about traditional use of these substances and it makes me wonder which came first the drug or the ritual/belief. The most convinsingly real trip I ever had in my life was a pure bong of 50x Salvia (it might have been stronger I just know it was the most you could buy) in that one hit I felt like I had fallen into a different diamention and a female voice was talking to me as I lay on the floor of this elongated cube,  and then another voice intterupted and told me to forget the first voice and then I started talking back and woah totally questioning reality with 3 different voices in my head for like 3 minutes. My friend took it after and questioned why everything had turned into an orange...we questioned him a bit on it and he said everything was like orange segments, and weirdly kinda knew what he meant (maybe) Its weird thinking how much of that stuff was just legal to buy back then. Spice ruined everything. 

 

I could waffle on all day but wondering what other people might think

[Boojum]

Are the experiences I have had when off my tits on serious hallucinogens any more or less valid a religious experience than the kinda stuff that Christians experience ?

 

I've done substances and seen the face of God (and it's TERRIFYING ).

 

That's more than you get from a sermon, a choir, a dry wafer and a sip of wine.

 

 

Edited July 30, 2022 by Boojum

[Oldbluesmileog]

Shit happens dude 

[Boojum]

Salvia 'extract', 50x or whatever is pointless IMHO. If you smoke fresh dried leaves properly then you don't need a concentrated extract.

 

It's not a recreational drug, though, in my experience

 

It's not guaranteed fun.

 

Some salvia trips can be quite enjoyable.

 

Some can be absolutely fucking hellish. I've had salvia trips where I lived and experienced entire lives, and they were fucking horrible lives In the real world the trip lasted a couple of minutes, in experiential time I lived entire lives. It's a proper, serious trip, more so than acid or shrooms in my opinion (having done quite a lot of all of them).

[Oldbluesmileog]

Life's what you make it, no one can fake it

 

ETA who sung that?

 

 

 

Edited July 31, 2022 by Oldbluesmileog
Who sung that?

[Joolz]

some of the most "psychedelic" people I know are actually massive egotist self absorbed cunts and they don't even realise it

 

1 hour ago, oldleafybeard1 said:

My friend took it after and questioned why everything had turned into an orange..

 

makes a change from them actually turning into an orange

[oldleafybeard1]

Just now, Joolz said:

some of the most "psychedelic" people I know are actually massive egotist self absorbed cunts and they don't even realise it

 

 

makes a change from them actually turning into an orange

Yeah I do think it kinda breeds a kind of pseudo spiritual high ground, but based on the experience you can have its understandable that people could think there are other beings behind a matrix style curtain of reality, or gods controlling the weather, its such a unique thing to do tripping. When these things were more commonly availiable I was taking them more often and these days im not really interested in doing it again, but I think thats common with these substances, weed included to change your brain and there fore change your entire personality and belief systems, along with however it may be percievied. 

Edited July 31, 2022 by oldleafybeard1

[Boojum]

I think psychedelics absolutely do connect with the bit of the brain that religion also connects with. That feeling religious people get when they 'connect' with their God is, I think, operating on the same bit of the brain that hallucinogens operate on when you get that 'revelation' buzz. What that means - whether it's a genuine revelationary experience or just electrochemical reactions in your brain is entirely up to you.

[Boojum]

I'm not a spiritual person, I just think it's all chemical and electrochemical sginals in your brain. We're all just meat puppets, controlled by the electrochemical signals in our brains that we think are consciousness, and 'free will' (and even 'souls' ).

[oldleafybeard1]

1 hour ago, Boojum said:

Are the experiences I have had when off my tits on serious hallucinogens any more or less valid a religious experience than the kinda stuff that Christians experience ?

 

I've done substances and seen the face of God (and it's TERRIFYING ).

 

That's more than you get from a sermon, a choir, a dry wafer and a sip of wine.

 

 

I am assuming you are talking about either one of the cacti or DMT? Ive had these hugely profound experiences some of which I described but I always felt less validated as it was a literal chemical reaction rather than a result of some ritual or prayer or whatever.

[oldleafybeard1]

Just now, Boojum said:

I'm not a spiritual person, I just think it's all chemical and electrochemical sginals in your brain. We're all just meat puppets, controlled by the electrochemical signals in our brains that we think are consciousness, and 'free will' (and even 'souls' ).

I am inclined to agree with this, but I have wiggle room for some really weird shit maybe going on that I could never possibly understand a tiny fraction of based on the limitations of a human.

[oldleafybeard1]

17 minutes ago, Boojum said:

Salvia 'extract', 50x or whatever is pointless IMHO. If you smoke fresh dried leaves properly then you don't need a concentrated extract.

 

It's not a recreational drug, though, in my experience

 

It's not guaranteed fun.

 

Some salvia trips can be quite enjoyable.

 

Some can be absolutely fucking hellish. I've had salvia trips where I lived and experienced entire lives, and they were fucking horrible lives In the real world the trip lasted a couple of minutes, in experiential time I lived entire lives. It's a proper, serious trip, more so than acid or shrooms in my opinion (having done quite a lot of all of them).

I wouldnt describe my experience as bad however it was so so weird and like out of nowhere experience it stayed with me for so long afterwards, I leaned back in my chair after hitting the bong and I just kept revolving backwards. I cant really remember why I had the extract other than it was the only way I knew it, I had heard the leaves chewed will be a longer less intense experience, however it seemed to me Salvia just picks you up and just throws you anywhere it wants its the most vivid intensely real trip ive had I think.

Edited July 31, 2022 by oldleafybeard1
more to say

[Boojum]

Just now, oldleafybeard1 said:

I am assuming you are talking about either one of the cacti or DMT? Ive had these hugely profound experiences some of which I described but I always felt less validated as it was a literal chemical reaction rather than a result of some ritual or prayer or whatever.

 

 

Isn't the whole point of a ritual or a prayer to prepare your mind for something ? a 'revelation'. It puts you in a suggestive state. I don't see how that is any more or less of a 'real' revelatory experience than a drug-induced one.

[Joolz]

Just now, oldleafybeard1 said:

Yeah I do think it kinda breeds a kind of pseudo spiritual high ground

I took my first acid trip in 1983, and I realised during comedown that I would never see things in the same light as I did pre trip ever again
I also did ( a lot)  of shrooms for the first time that same year and was convinced I had seen the bigger picture and had cracked the code of life and then I did a psychedelic yawn and hurled those bad boys up again and sat listening to tangerine dream ricochet for what felt like an eternity

[Boojum]

First time I had a proper profound trip, I thought I'd understood the universe, creation, infinity and all that shit, I had a pen and paper with me (cos at that time I carried a pan and paper evereywhere, thought I was gonna be a writer and shit ) and wrote it all down.

 

Next day I looked at my profound notes. There was a page of scribble and then a page that just had written on it (in capital letters, pressed so hard they left an impression on all the other pages) WHY ARE ALL THE RADIATORS GREEN ?