Grow genius mono silica

[NightmaresOnWax]

Saw this product in a horticulture magazine. Says it's 40% concentrated while others are only 1-4% and claims to be 20 times cheaper than leading brands and i love a good bargain has anyone used this stuff yet ? im going to try it on next run been trying to cut costs on my nutrient schedule 

[catweazle1]

Just did some comparison maths with Buddha's Tree Solar Green Power Silica, which is 15 quid for 250ml and 10% silicic acid. This works out at 60p per ml of pure silicic acid after removing the water. The GG in the 250ml bottle works out at 80p per ml of pure silicic acid after removing the water. Their claims aren't backed by the evidence. The 10ml of GG will be very expensive indeed.

Edited October 18, 2020 by catweazle1

[NightmaresOnWax]

@catweazle1 Nice one thats good to know, buddha's tree it is then. Makes me think what brand they're even comparing themselves too. guess the only advantage is the concentration rather than money saving 

Edited October 18, 2020 by NightmaresOnWax

[zen-ken]

56 minutes ago, catweazle1 said:

Just did some comparison maths with Buddha's Tree Solar Green Power Silica, which is 15 quid for 250ml and 10% silicic acid. This works out at 60p per ml of pure silicic acid after removing the water. The GG in the 250ml bottle works out at 80p per ml of pure silicic acid after removing the water. Their claims aren't backed by the evidence. The 10ml of GG will be very expensive indeed.

I find the science of how silicic acid works......and how this translates to plant available silicon very confusing.

i understand house and garden and Aptus use synthetic stabilisers (PEG400) to stabilise them but I worry at the health impact of using it.....the other options, whilst cheaper, massively increase alkalinity and can ‘cloud’ and destroy a feed mix in seconds if not added first.....if used correctly tho my understanding is they can be more effective in hydro systems due to the PAS of the product.

 

source: https://medteknutrients.com.au/silica-additive-quality/

Edited October 18, 2020 by zen-ken

[NightmaresOnWax]

@zen-ken I've done a little digging and grow genius boast a 95% bio-availability over 28 days. And buddhas tree just says " colloidal liquid silicon fertiliser with high bio-availability"   

 

Im assuming they would have similar availability but they seem to use different methods to make the silica. As for how that effects alkalinity and cloudiness im not sure would have to use them side by side

 

Reading more into the grow genius they claim "Mono-silicic acid is the most effective form of silicon available to gardeners, and Grow-Genius 40% mono-silicic is the best value true mono available today."

 

Not sure what they mean by "true mono" is there something special about there silicon or is it just clever marketing 

Edited October 18, 2020 by NightmaresOnWax

[UKsFinest]

Have a look at plant magic biosilicon mate I've used it a couple of times as a foliar seems to do a good job.

[catweazle1]

@NightmaresOnWaxThe other thing is that, being more concentrated, it will take longer to dissolve properly.

 

@zen-ken Potassium silicate is indeed awkward stuff and have seen the clouding problems with it. That is the silicate part polymerizing (gelling) with the contents of your nutes because the pH of the silicate and nutes has gone over pH8, which is where potassium silicate becomes reactive beyond that.  It is also reluctant to dissolve, which means localised areas in the nute solution become concentrated with it and hence very reactive. I have learned that potassium silicate dissolves well in hot water. Armed with this information, I have found that dissolving it in a litre of hot water that has been pre-acidified with the acid negates its problems. I know that, for my mix, I need to add 3ml of acid in 10L of nute solution to give me my desired pH. I add this 3ml first in the hot water, then addI my potassium silicate and stir vigorously. I then top up with water and add my nutes as normal. There is no clouding. The essence of this method is to avoid allowing the mix to go over pH8 at any point in the mixing process where potassium silicate becomes reactive with the other contents. Much of this was sourced from Med-Tek articles.

[catweazle1]

18 minutes ago, NightmaresOnWax said:

@zen-ken I've done a little digging and grow genius boast a 95% bio-availability. And buddhas tree just says " colloidal liquid silicon fertiliser with high bio-availability"  

 

@NightmaresOnWaxAs I've shown in the first instance, they are not immune to being wrong. 

[NightmaresOnWax]

@catweazle1 they claim that issue has been solved by there "new ethanol based technology" loads more info here https://www.grow-genius.com/about-silicon they do have a link to a "peer review study" but only took a glance at it so not sure about credibility someone more in the know would have to confirm 

 

@UKsFinest i use to use the pm silica years ago its good but wasn't massively keen it has a pretty high amount of potassium which is a bit of a bummer and doesn't use mono-silica which is suppose to be superior 

Edited October 18, 2020 by NightmaresOnWax

[zen-ken]

3 minutes ago, catweazle1 said:

@NightmaresOnWaxThe other thing is that, being more concentrated, it will take longer to dissolve properly.

 

@zen-ken Potassium silicate is indeed awkward stuff and have seen the clouding problems with it. That is the silicate part polymerizing (gelling) with the contents of your nutes because the pH of the silicate and nutes has gone over pH8, which is where potassium silicate becomes reactive beyond that.  It is also reluctant to dissolve, which means localised areas in the nute solution become concentrated with it and hence very reactive. I have learned that potassium silicate dissolves well in hot water. Armed with this information, I have found that dissolving it in a litre of hot water that has been pre-acidified with the acid negates its problems. I know that, for my mix, I need to add 3ml of acid in 10L of nute solution to give me my desired pH. I add this 3ml first in the hot water, then addI my potassium silicate and stir vigorously. I then top up with water and add my nutes as normal. There is no clouding. The essence of this method is to avoid allowing the mix to go over pH8 at any point in the mixing process where potassium silicate becomes reactive with the other contents. Much of this was sourced from Med-Tek articles.

The times I’ve tried to add a little PH up to the res.....even mixed in 5 litres of water....and a little too much at once and boom....its precipitated and fucked my water  

[catweazle1]

@NightmaresOnWax I'll have a gander later.

[NightmaresOnWax]

@catweazle1 nice one let us know what you think 

[catweazle1]

6 minutes ago, zen-ken said:

The times I’ve tried to add a little PH up to the res.....even mixed in 5 litres of water....and a little too much at once and boom....its precipitated and fucked my water  

In my first forays with it, I avoided it until this grow because of the issues with it. If you can get your head around what I wrote, your issues with it should go away. I'm happy to use it now. Take note of the italicized sentencein my post  as that's the general principle I'm following... I think there is more than one path to achieve that end.

Edited October 18, 2020 by catweazle1

[zen-ken]

6 minutes ago, catweazle1 said:

In my first forays with it, I avoided it until this grow because of the issues with it. If you can get your head around what I wrote, your issues with it should go away. I'm happy to use it now. Take note of the italicized sentencein my post  as that's the general principle I'm following... I think there is more than one path to achieve that end.

The problem with that is ur kinda robbing Peter to pay Paul by adding the acid in the first place??.....and unbalanced npk....I just water it down and take a good half to an hour to add the five litres if PH up is ever needed to adjust my tanks. 

As for the hydro silicons and using silicon products  .....just put them in water first before anything else.

however ur bang on with PH being the problem with silicon plant availability and stability  as I’m sure I don’t need me to tell u. 

[catweazle1]

7 minutes ago, zen-ken said:

The problem with that is ur kinda robbing Peter to pay Paul by adding the acid in the first place??.....and unbalanced npk....I just water it down and take a good half to an hour to add the five litres if PH up is ever needed to adjust my tanks. 

As for the hydro silicons and using silicon products  .....just put them in water first before anything else.

however ur bang on with PH being the problem with silicon plant availability and stability  as I’m sure I don’t need me to tell u. 

That acid is going in anyway, as I need that to bring the final nutrient pH to my target with IN nutes I'm using.... it's not additional. I'm just adding it first instead of last to keep the solution pH always below 8.

Edited October 18, 2020 by catweazle1