Germinating old seeds

[Personunknown]

1 hour ago, MindSoup said:

Might have tried it before you suggested it perhaps . 

You beat me to it

[Thai Stick]

9 hours ago, Saddam said:

 

Honestly man, are you trolling or just some sort of fuckwit?  Did you really expect to signs your old seeds have germinated in the 9 hours since I advised you to scuff them?

 

Jeez @Saddam what kind of response is that?
To clarify so you don't get confused by what i said and call me a troll and some sort of fuckwit.....

I was responding to your suggestion of giving the seeds a shake in a matchbox lined with sandpaper.
I have previously tried this technique with no noticeable effect, even looking at it under a microscope didn't show much micro abrasions.
The more aggressive technique of scoring the joint of the seed shell with a scalpel has helped in the seeds cracking open, taproot pokes out and that is where they stop.
 

 

9 hours ago, Saddam said:

 

Because this always happens in nature?      

 

No, of course not.
But each element brings something to the table.
I have no problem germinating fresh, properly stored seeds.
These are going on 13 years old and been improperly stored but are something that would be a shame to loose.
Wouldn't you try anything possible to save something you value when your normal foolproof methods have failed?
 

6 hours ago, Saddam said:

Idk, if you drowned me in water for 24 hours, then coconut water, and aloe vera,  then dipped me in 3% H2O2, I'd probably turn to mush too.   

 

Thank you for this bit of feedback but can i ask, why do you think a seed that has been wet for 24hours would go mushy?
and what are your thoughts on H2o2, Coconut water and Aloe Vera.

Soaking for up to 24 hours until the seed sinks is something i see a lot of people doing on here.....

 

Using coconut water instead as it contains plenty of growth hormones and everything a plant needs.
Aloe vera gel as it common knowledge it promotes root growth.
Very natural and used commonly in horticulture for centuries over here in Asia.

H2o2 to help kill any bacteria on the shell and soften it to allow for better water absorption.
Read about it online and tried it on some brick weed seeds and they germinated same as those without a h2o2 quick soak so at least i know it wont kill my prized seeds.

 

Anything else one might suggest to germinate old seeds or just "plant the fucking things, wet the medium, then leave them alone in a warm place until the seedlings break the surface.  Give them at least two weeks."...

Peace & Love
TS

[Owderb]

7 minutes ago, Thai Stick said:

"plant the fucking things, wet the medium, then leave them alone

 

Thats about it. Thats what I do and what will be will be

 

Owd

[lildaveham]

@Thai Stick

 

Wouldnt the H2O2 kill the beneficial cytokinin from the coconut water and  nutralise the vitamins, enzymes, minerals, sugars, lignin, saponins, salicylic acids and amino acids in the Aloe vera therfore rendering the use of all 3 useless?? I might be way off the mark ?

 

Have you tried it in a different order?

 

Think i have some Mazzar i sharif seeds in the fridge they must be at least 15 years old i might try getting a few to pop using the 24hr soak and plant in wetted medium.

 

 

 

[Surfer Joe]

I planted 3 mandala hubble bubble seeds that were going on 12 years old and they all sprouted. They had been stored in Tupperware in the fridge and for a while in the freezer over the years.

I used root riot cubes and put them in a heated propagator and they seem to work better than soil because they hold moisture well and the material seems to help the seedling emerge because it's slippery and doesn't clump or cling like soil but it also seems to help the seed shed its shell as it emerges. Sometimes in soil, the seed emerges with the shell still stuck around the leaf and they can't open up and die unless I help them remove the shell.

[badbillybob]

17 hours ago, Surfer Joe said:

Sometimes in soil, the seed emerges with the shell still stuck around the leaf and they can't open up and die unless I help them remove the shell.

thats because they arent buried deep enough.

in nature it starts to shed its shell as it pushes up through the medium. 

[Thai Stick]

19 hours ago, lildaveham said:

@Thai Stick

 

Wouldnt the H2O2 kill the beneficial cytokinin from the coconut water and  nutralise the vitamins, enzymes, minerals, sugars, lignin, saponins, salicylic acids and amino acids in the Aloe vera therfore rendering the use of all 3 useless?? I might be way off the mark ?

 

Have you tried it in a different order?

 

Think i have some Mazzar i sharif seeds in the fridge they must be at least 15 years old i might try getting a few to pop using the 24hr soak and plant in wetted medium.

 

 

 

 

Honestly, i don't know the answer. I havent come across anybody trying a combination of these methods before. Individually, yes but not combined.
I've come across a video on youtube once that i cant find again for the life of me from many years ago where some guy had a kit that was 3 different solutions of some sort which he used to germinate old troublesome seeds. That video is what gave me the idea to replicate a similar process.
 

When i played out the situation in my head the 10minute soak in h2o2 would soften the shell, the extended soak in coconut water and aloe vera would allow all the beneficials to penetrate deep into the seed and lastly the quick 3 second dunk in h2o2 there to quickly kill off any bacteria that would have been found in the coconut water and aloe vera.
That is the theory i have come up with on this, but i could be way off the mark.

My usual method of germination involves popping the seed between two damp paper towels or cotton "makeup remover pad" things inside a little plastic sauce pot with lid, set aside somewhere warm and when it cracks open, transferring it to it soil home.
This method has worked flawlessly for me for the last 13 years with properly stored seeds.

 

Now over the years of moving around, these original seeds from back when i started growing my own have seen better storage days.
Every few months i would go visit another country in SEA and take my seed stash with me to share with new green thumbed friends i would make, often spending a couple weeks in places with no fridge in very hot conditions so im sure they suffered.

So when I finally had the space, time and the need to grow something oldschool flavoured again and my usual go to method failed i embarked on a journey to find a way to get these seeds to pop.

I have plenty of thai seeds to play with so i started trying all the different methods except it was hard to tell if any of the things i was trying were actually helping...the seeds were just too fresh and viable and ALL germinated with or without any added coconut water of aloe vera or both.

One thing that i did start to notice happening on some seeds that did have a soak of coconut water or aloe vera was a mould would start to grow on the seed.

If the seed had sprouted its taproot quickly by the time this mould grew, it tended to survive.

If the seed was a slower starter to even crack open and went longer than a week before taproot emerging, the mould would completely rot the seed.

And this is where we are at now, about to try what i previously mentioned, A pre soak before and quick wash after with h2o2 combined with the long soak until it sinks in coconut water and aloe vera then transfer to damp towel.

Testing it with thai seeds as we speak before i try it on my last few proper seeds.


Will share my results good or bad in two weeks
We live and we learn.

Peace & Love
TS

 

Edited August 17, 2021 by Thai Stick

[badbillybob]

i would just soak it for 48 hrs, it will soften the shell enough that germination has a fighting chance

[Saddam]

1 hour ago, Thai Stick said:

the mould would completely rot the seed.

 

This indicates your medium is too wet, waterlogged even, creating an anaerobic condition.  

[Thai Stick]

49 minutes ago, Saddam said:

 

This indicates your medium is too wet, waterlogged even, creating an anaerobic condition.  

Medium is a damp paper towel.

I havent had this issue with plain water after the same period of time.

It could be that i am using fresh coconut and fresh aloe vera.
Literally picked from my garden so maybe theres that....

 

 

2 hours ago, badbillybob said:

i would just soak it for 48 hrs, it will soften the shell enough that germination has a fighting chance

I will give that a go.

Never gone over 24 hours.
Usually a lot less in fear of drowning the seed.........
 

...which makes me think, is that even possible?
Folks that sow direct into hydroponics...

[JamieThePainter]

Just now, Thai Stick said:

Medium is a damp paper towel.

I havent had this issue with plain water after the same period of time.

It could be that i am using fresh coconut and fresh aloe vera.
Literally picked from my garden so maybe theres that....

 

 

I will give that a go.

Never gone over 24 hours.
Usually a lot less in fear of drowning the seed.........
 

...which makes me think, is that even possible?
Folks that sow direct into hydroponics...

 

I germinate in my rockwool which is sat in the NFT system ready to go.  Water isn't constantly running til it's out the seedling stage though.

[Thai Stick]

Just now, JamieThePainter said:

 

I germinate in my rockwool which is sat in the NFT system ready to go.  Water isn't constantly running til it's out the seedling stage though.

How wet do you keep the rockwool?

[JamieThePainter]

Just now, Thai Stick said:

How wet do you keep the rockwool?

 

I tend to submerge the rockwool in a pot of water with .5ml/l grow nutes for about an hour then pop the seed in and then fire it into the tent.  After that I keep an eye on it to make sure it doesn't go full on dry as a bone and when it's getting close to that, I dunk it in a similar solution to the first for around a second, then it's back into the tent with it.

 

100% success rate (Well other than Barney's Farm seeds, but fuck that cunt.  I had one seed from them that grew upside down ffs.... root just kept goin straight up and when I finally gave up and pulled it out, the cotyledon leaves were out of the shell and digging deep to find that light.  Fucking weird like )

Edited August 17, 2021 by JamieThePainter

[Saddam]

4 hours ago, badbillybob said:

i would just soak it for 48 hrs

 

What on Earth for?  He said the seeds cracked, which means they've germinated, and then they stopped growing/turned to mush. Do you really think an extra 24hrs in water is going to help the situation? 

[HazyDaze]