Arnold Layne Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 (edited) Nay. To Orthodox Protestants and whole heap of Catholics, "Free Will" is a heresy. This is due to their holding essentially Augustinian theology, which sees the notion of "Free Will" as being incompatible with that of a truly Omnipotent Deity. Your policeman is a heretic, but in America, that's not unusual. And through legalization it would become normal So, HMG will freely give up their control of Cannabis just because Normalisation is the obvious best way forward? Yeah, right. Good luck with that idea. I say this without malice: you really haven't a clue, have you? Do you not know that here on UK420 we've had folks like you come along every year, and stir the old Activist cauldron. You would've been better off doing some on-site research before launching your thread. Because its ALL been said 100 times before. And repetition does not change bollox into gold. 2 Points: A) I have already been sent away for my cannabis growing/possessing/dealing crimes, thank you. As I only now grow for my own medication, I have no fear of being sent anywhere. Not that I ever did. Funny how many activists throw this jibe in my face, when their too shit scared to pop a seed in their own homes. Very odd. B) I have no problems with VAT, sales tax etc. That's Normalisation. Tell me, how many roses are you allowed to grow? Silly question, isn't it? That's because roses are not "legalised", they are "normalised". Given your intentions, I really should NOT have to point this out to you. Good luck! Edited March 10, 2015 by Arnold Layne 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartman Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 (edited) @@Arnold Layne. Well said General. I remember you saying the same to me many, many moons ago. It's taken a while but now I understand how right you were all along. However I never see a cup half empty so anything is possible That's because roses are not "legalised", they are "normalised". This is pure semantics though surely.Possession of roses has never been illegal to my knowledge so how can they ever have been legalised? Edited March 10, 2015 by bartman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
distracted Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 (edited) I think you should keep away from the Bible quote the copper gave, it is wrong anyway as God prohibited against eating the fruit of the tree of eternal life, which can't be compared to prohibiting getting high on a Friday night. A religious quote that makes more sense is this one from the Bible and Torah: And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth A gift to us all! Who is to say they can morally judge if a person can or cannot enjoy a gift that was given freely to us all, without restriction, especially if no one else is affected by that personal enjoyment. I don’t believe in religion myself but many do Edited March 10, 2015 by distracted 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold Layne Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 @@Arnold Layne. Well said General. I remember you saying the same to me many, many moons ago. It's taken a while but now I understand how right you were all along. However I never see a cup half empty so anything is possible This is pure semantics though surely. Possesion of roses has never been illegal to my knowledge so how can they ever have been legalised? Aye, and till the last century Cannabis was also not illegal. The issue is: what right does any government have to "Legalise" or "Illegalise" any part of nature? It truly isn't just semantics. For decades now Governments have been trying to put the squeeze on horticulture. Loads of old seed varieties of vegetables and other edibles are now no longer legally available. This has been done to defend the market share of newer, more predictable varieties. IOW, its been done for profit. Truth is, cannabis is legal. But the law says you cannot have any. Now that is semantics. And its the status quo we are living under! I repeat: the law does not say cannabis is illegal ~ a true absurdity! Instead, the law simply says you cannot possess cannabis without a licence. The battle is about our freedoms, as humans, to enjoy the natural world. So called "Legalisation of Cannabis" is not only wrong in its very wordage, it is misleading. Because in really means imposing one set of "Regulations" in place of another. Some of us would be just as wrong side of the law under legalisation as we are now. So why bother with the change? Beats me! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam-i-am Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I think you should keep away from the Bible quote the copper gave, it is wrong anyway as God prohibited against eating the fruit of the tree of eternal life, which can't be compared to prohibiting getting high on a Friday night. I thought it was the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil? Which I've generally taken as a reference to the change from hunter - gatherer to settled farmer with it's concepts of possession and war and stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoned Whale Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 The anti legalisation stuff really baffles my head. Cannabis really has more similarities with alcohol than roses. A regulated taxed market is what will happen and imagining normalisation is just a fairy tale IMO. I don't care if the first change in regulation says I can only have 10 plants. And that means I would still be on the wrong side of the law. Why want that you say Arnold? Because in a regulated frame work me and many many others will have a much lesser chance of having their life ruined, future job prospects destroyed because of those regulations. Cannabis policing will dwindle into nothing even if a plant limit is set. With time I do think regulation will furthur normalise cannabis. No not quickly to no plant limits and utter freedom for the plant. But it's the only feasible route to have a mass change of public opinion on our drug of choice. Your no fear stuff I don't understand in the slightest. I grow, wouldn't let the law stop me. But I am fucking terrified of prison, I am in a very vulnerable head space and being honest I fear for my suicide ideation coming back should I get arrested. Not sure how you having no fear means anything? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
distracted Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I thought it was the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil? Which I've generally taken as a reference to the change from hunter - gatherer to settled farmer with it's concepts of possession and war and stuff. Both trees were forbidden, Adam and Eve were thrown out though incase they then went on to eat from the tree of life "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever" etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold Layne Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 @@Stoned Whale Man, you will not be going anywhere, not for 10 plants. I don't fear because there is nothing to fear. Been inside; meh, foods poor, but otherwise..... keep yer head down, MYOB, know who to respect and all will be well. I fail to see any logical reason why any Government would advance from Regulation/Control to Normalisation. Why on earth would the power hungry bastards do that? You're selling your freedoms cheap, my friend, if you sell them just because you have a fear of going down the Big House. Don't ask me to sell mine, because I might just use some really naughty fucking words! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartman Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 It truly isn't just semantics. For decades now Governments have been trying to put the squeeze on horticulture. Loads of old seed varieties of vegetables and other edibles are now no longer legally available. This has been done to defend the market share of newer, more predictable varieties. IOW, its been done for profit. All of that has been done under the "normalisation model" we speak and dream of. So what your're saying is that other fruit and veg that we want cannabis to be treated as "normal" as, in reality are as bound by the Eurocrats as us weed growers. What hope do we have Beats me too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam-i-am Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Both trees were forbidden, Adam and Eve were thrown out though incase they then went on to eat from the tree of life "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever" etc Oo didn't realize that there were two trees. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold Layne Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 @@bartman The hope of a million law-breaking growers bartman, my friend, the hope of a million law-breaking growers 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartman Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 @@bartman The hope of a million law-breaking growers bartman, my friend, the hope of a million law-breaking growers Amen to that, brother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoned Whale Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I meant 10 as an example for a legalised plant numbers limit. I have a tad more than 10 I know what you mean about Government de regulating after initial "legalisation". It is hard to imagine. I can only hope that after 10 years of having a say 5 plant personal limit and open possession for self use, that they would see the plant limit as having no use and lift / increase the limit. With time after the skunk psychosis nonsense dies off. And proper research has a decade or so to take place. Public opinion will have had time to change and furthur normalise it as a social drug. The hate for the plant and reasons for strict control will no longer have half a countries support. Other than plant numbers I don't really see the downfall to regulation. I know there's alot of fear over strength control (required CBD levels or whatever) but even worst case scenario with shops having seriously controlled cannabis. I will still feel safer and be more openly able to share my high strength with other growers. Taxation over VAT and normal sales tax is completely acceptable to me, alcohol is taxed extra as a consumable drug and I don't really see a problem with Cannabis being extra taxed aswell. No reason this has to interfere with what should be virtually free weed for medi use. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoned Whale Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I don't get the selling my freedoms stuff either. I don't have any of these freedoms to give away..... I don't hold my views out of fear of being locked up. I hold them because I think it's the route which can minimise the massive harm to people everywhere that prohibition causes, and a route which I see as plausible. Straight decrim I just can't imagine happening in the UK, ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darwin Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 They lock you up for nicking power, dealing, mass production, class A's and occasionally if you've pissed em off. I'd be more worried bout losing valuable genetics and knowledge as copyrights become more and more likely. And I'd worry bout how far behind we will be when we finally realise we've been wasting time worrying about plant numbers and fuckin helicopters when we should've been fighting for our human rights. Too much sniveling! 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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