cannabis hypocrisy protest

[Joolz]

You are mistaken. Because the UK is not a member of the Schengen agreement, it makes not a jot whether Holland is or not. There is no dispensation for someone bringing cannabis into the UK. Prescribed Sativex yes. Anything else, no. I hope no one finds themselves arrested and charged as a result of any misunderstanding.

The Dutch users are not exempt from UK law which does NOT recognise the Schengen Agreement. I would be very careful if I were a Dutch person hoping to come over, HM Customs will be all over them like a rash.

Please don't tell me that "Norml" are saying otherwise?

E2A

Oh, FFS! I can't believe Norml would be so inaccurate. They are badly misleading some folks if they think that just because they are Dutch they are "Legal" users in the UK! They are NOT.

Fuck me, this is a disaster waiting to hit some poor Dutch medicinal user. I hope Norml pay their legal fees when they get busted. Poor sods. Misled by the folks they should be able to trust.

Not good, not good at all.

I could be mistaken but I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that this has already been put to the test, under EU law, Dutch citizens can bring their legal Dutch prescription cannabis into the UK, British citizens on the other hand cannot bring in Dutch prescription cannabis

[Arnold Layne]

I thought it went the other way, Joolz?

[L'Emmerdeur]

I could be mistaken but I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that this has already been put to the test...

I'm not sure if it's been put to the test but I do recall reading somewhere that the home office stated Dutch and Belgian citizens will be allowed to bring prescribed medications into the UK... I think the source might have been dewek's site though.

[Arnold Layne]

We need clarification

[JimmyPage]

I could be mistaken but I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that this has already been put to the test, under EU law, Dutch citizens can bring their legal Dutch prescription cannabis into the UK, British citizens on the other hand cannot bring in Dutch prescription cannabis

I wouldn't bet my liberty on someones hunch. I am not making the assertion that it's legal for a Dutch person to bring cannabis into the UK. I am refuting it. Since you cannot prove a negative, the onus is one the people claiming it *is* legal, to prove it. And links to Facebook aren't really legal textbooks.

If I am wrong, I will apologise unreservedly, and wear the stupid hat. But believe me, it's better than being busted.

[Jiffa]

from euro move site . maybe its mixed up in one of these sections we opted into . it the imigration stuf we opt out of in the agreement

anyone more inform she light on whatbts of argreemnt those sections focus on

never mind was all information sharing i think

Edited October 1, 2013 by Jiffa

[Joolz]

I thought it went the other way, Joolz?

the British guy ( pinky ?) who had a prescription and obtained Bedrocan in Holland wasn't covered and was liable to arrest, but a Dutch person visiting the UK with a legal Dutch prescription is covered as far as I recall

I remember thinking at the time that this was another example of the British governbent making us the 2nd class citizens of the EU again

[JimmyPage]

A quick google of :"UK home office schengen dutch cannabis" returns results from:

norml-uk

ukcia

clear-uk

peterreynolds.wordpress.com

Unless I see a statement on an official UK government website (presumably the Home Office) I stand by my assertion that it is illegal for ANYONE to bring cannabis into the UK.

[Joolz]

I wouldn't bet my liberty on someones hunch. I am not making the assertion that it's legal for a Dutch person to bring cannabis into the UK. I am refuting it. Since you cannot prove a negative, the onus is one the people claiming it *is* legal, to prove it. And links to Facebook aren't really legal textbooks.

neither would I, and I don't need to prove anything at all, I'm just relaying what I've read elsewhere as part of the ongoing discussion

I guess the best folks to ask for "proof" would be Norml UK who are organizing the protest, I'd ask for you but I don't do facebook and I'm no longer a member of Norml UK

[MonsterMash]

I looked too and found this :-

Reference: T10069/13

3rd September 2013

Dear Mr

Thank you for your emails of 8th and 30th August regarding the importation of prescribed medicinal cannabis into the UK. The Home Office policy states that we aim to respond to queries, made in writing, within 20 working days, and I am therefore responding to your email of 8th August within that timeframe. I apologise that we have not been able to reply sooner.

I believe that you are referring to the issue that has arisen in the context of the UK’s obligations under Article 75 of the Schengen Agreement which took effect in 2005. This provision allows for the free movement of travellers within the Schengen member states with their prescribed narcotic and psychotropic substances that are necessary for their medical treatment, provided they have a certificate – “a Schengen certificate” – issued or authenticated by a competent authority of their state of residence.

Pursuant to Article 75, the UK recognises that a patient who is resident in another member state can travel to the UK with their narcotic and psychotropic medication, provided that they are resident in a country where that drug is legally prescribed; it has been prescribed by their doctor; it is for necessary medical treatment for a maximum of 30 days and is for personal use only, and they have the appropriate certification from a competent authority of their State. Of course, this is a reciprocal arrangement enabling UK residents to travel with their personal medication.

In respect of herbal cannabis, the Government understands that health authorities in The Netherlands and Belgium allow herbal cannabis products to be prescribed by doctors and dispensed to patients for a number of indications. In the limited circumstances described above, a Dutch or Belgian resident will be allowed to travel to the UK with herbal cannabis products prescribed in these countries.

However, a UK resident cannot rely on the Schengen Agreement to bring prescribed herbal cannabis into the UK from The Netherlands or Belgium. This activity would be in breach of UK law, amounting to the unlawful importation and possession of a controlled drug, and the UK resident would be liable to arrest and prosecution under the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971. The Government is committed to maintaining UK drugs laws and is seeking assurance from European authorities that checks in this system, including the checks that member states make before issuing a Schengen certificate to an applicant, are as robust as possible.

In addition to the information provided above, irrespective of prescribing rights of English or Dutch doctors, cannabis is not available on prescription in the UK. You may be aware that one cannabis-based medicine, Sativex, is available on prescription in the UK.

Yours sincerely,

Angharad Steff

Drugs Licensing

[Jiffa]

why no more a member @joolz im new to all this and aint membr of any group or owt , seems like looooads of drama

nice one @@MonsterMash that waswat i ws looing for before

Edited October 1, 2013 by Jiffa

[Terra-ist]

Probably have politicians scurrying away to write some shit on a piece of paper, something to the effect of no dutch Medi stoners allowed in public. Good on um mind.

[JimmyPage]

Hmmm. Referring to MonsterMashs find ... interesting, and I'll shave my head in readiness for the stupid hat, but I'm not ready to put it on yet.

Despite what you might think, a letter from a civil servant is (a) not a statement of policy, (b) not a statement of fact, and most importantly © not guaranteed to be accurate. It is merely what it is. A letter from a civil servant.

I now have very loud bells ringing that there was a similar debate (and it may have involved the infamous Pink poster) which resulted in a letter from the Home Office apologising for a previous letter saying it was incorrect and restated that the 1971 MDA remains in force for everyone. As soon as I have pressed "post" I shall try to recount the story. Yes, I could research first THEN post, but this is UK420

[L'Emmerdeur]

...seems like looooads of drama

A farce is what it is.

I looked too and found this :-

Source?

E2a -

Hmmm. Referring to MonsterMashs find ... interesting...

I think the source is UKCIA, in which case it definitely can't be relied on (IMO of course ).

I'm pretty sure I remember reading it a fair while back.

Edited October 1, 2013 by L'Emmerdeur

[JimmyPage]

Oh, look what I found:

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2010/oct/29/home-office-import-medicinal-cannabis

The Home Office sent emails to members of the public wrongly stating that some people were legally permitted to import medicinal cannabis to Britain, potentially putting anyone who acted on the flawed advice at risk of arrest or prosecution.

Earlier this year officials in the drugs strategy unit incorrectly advised that under EU law individuals could bring small quantities of medicinal cannabis into the UK for personal use if they had valid documentation, including a prescription from a doctor in an EU country where the drug was legal.

The advice, which appeared to fly in the face of UK drugs laws that ban possession of the drug under any circumstances, was later posted online and rapidly went viral, sparking heated debate about the legal status of the drug.

Some cannabis forums predicted that on the back of the official guidance thousands of chronically ill British people would travel to the Netherlands and Belgium, the two EU states where the drug is legal for medical use, to obtain prescriptions.

According to drugs charities, enquiries about the legality of importing the drug for medical use jumped after the online speculation. Release said it had received numerous requests for clarification of the law, including from the government's own drugs advice helpline, Frank.

A Home Office spokesman initially denied that the department had given out inaccurate information about medicinal use of cannabis, saying the UK's position was clear. It issued a statement saying: "Cannabis is dangerous and has no medicinal benefits in herbal form. It remains illegal for UK residents to possess cannabis in any form."

However the spokesman later confirmed that emails containing incorrect advice had been sent. He suggested that the error was due to a misinterpretation by department officials of a 15-year-old piece of European law known as the Schengen agreement.

Clause 75 of the agreement regulates travel within the EU with prescribed controlled drugs. However it only permits people who are officially resident in countries where the drug being carried is legal to move between countries while in possession of it. Conditions also apply meaning individuals must have the appropriate permits and a doctor's prescription from the relevant country. This means British residents cannot travel to the UK in possession of medicinal cannabis even if they managed to acquire a prescription in a country where it is legal.

The chief executive of Release, Sebastian Saville, said it was a pity the clause did not apply to UK residents. "What is more worrying though is how Home Office advice could have led to people being prosecuted and potentially imprisoned," he said.

Campaigners for the legalisation of medicinal cannabis are often people with chronic illnesses who claim it is especially effective as a pain reliever. They point to countries like Holland where the drug can be prescribed for medical reasons as evidence that British drugs laws are draconian. Some argue that denial of the drug to people in pain is tantamount to discrimination.

Saville says Britain should be looking to California where regulated medical cannabis is widely available and where a referendum on whether to legalise it for general use is scheduled for 2 November.

A spokesman for the Home Office said: "We apologise if inaccurate information was given in good faith during correspondence with the department." He said staff dealing with the subject of drugs and EU law had received clarification on the issue.