Boojum Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 (edited) No, not the philosophical essay by Aldous Huxley I'm afraid. Just the inane ramblings of a hungover Boojum The idea of heaven and hell has always bothered me - the carrot and stick 'morality' has always struck me as rather primitive and arbitrary to be the workings of the mind of an allegedly omnipotent being. And most people's idea of heaven seems to be ill-conceived (OK, so this bit is about people's idea of what heaven is). Seems to me that to most people the notion of heaven includes the idea of spending eternity with their loved one(s). All well and good on the surface, but think a little deeper and the flaws in that start to appear. What happens if the person who you want to spend eternity with doesn't want to spend eternity with you ? Which one of you gets their heaven ? Because the heaven for one could end up being hell for the other (either being forced to spend eternity with someone you don't want to be with, or discovering that the person you want to spend eternity with doesn't want to be with you and ending up alone). Edited February 12, 2013 by Boojum 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cursed Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 (edited) Heaven just sounds fucking boring man, sitting around in perfect harmony all the time. Give me the lake of fire with all the fucking best musicians that ever lived becasue they either killed themselves, someone else or were just a bit to debauched for the sanctity of heaven. edit: oh yeah and people can stick their misguided morality up their fucking arse. second edit: seems somewhat appropriate that i changed my sig about ten minutes ago ha ha Edited February 12, 2013 by Cured 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold Layne Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 oh yeah and people can stick their misguided morality up their fucking arse Nice, I'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cursed Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 (edited) The idea of heaven and hell has always bothered me - the carrot and stick 'morality' has always struck me as rather primitive and arbitrary to be the workings of the mind of an allegedly omnipotent being. don't quite see what the problem is arnold, lots and lots of misguided morality about and i was referencing this line of boojums in particular. edit: i consider myself a pretty moralistic person, a very good sense of what i consider right and wrong and the conviction to live my life by the moralistic rules i set myself. i don't like being lectured by people who's morals i see as being particularly out of whack with the ethos of treat people as you would expect to be treated so in that sense people can stick the misguided morals up their fuckiing arse. i'm sorry arnold but i don't really see what i've said to deserve the sad face of condesention there. Edited February 12, 2013 by Cured Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold Layne Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 don't quite see what the problem is arnold Best leave it there, then. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cursed Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 (edited) i think i deserve an explanation of why your being condesending, i don't see i've done anything wrong. i'm not looking for an argument just an explanation as to what i've said and it's causing you some offence as i really really don't see what is wrong with what i have said. i'll even apologise for causing you offence arnold but iam at a loss really edit for spelling Edited February 12, 2013 by Cured 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glezga Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 not that i believe but youd get "your" heaven, or think of it like dimensions where you get what you think/want and so dos everyone else, like the family member who dosent want you in theirs wont but in yours they will be there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boojum Posted February 12, 2013 Author Share Posted February 12, 2013 That seems even worse, you're stuck with a copy of them while the real them is somewhere else I guess I'm probably thinking of it a bit too, I dunno, earth bound, materially (can't think of the right word), and that it's not the person who goes to heaven, it's the soul, which is an entity of spirit not body, so those earthly things don't apply. Dunno why I'm giving it so much thought, really, given that I don't believe in heaven or hell Just in one of those moods, I guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cursed Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 oh well, i apologise for any offence caused arnold, i think you have misunderstood slightly who i was telling to stick their morals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glezga Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 (edited) That seems even worse, you're stuck with a copy of them while the real them is somewhere else depends on how you think of it, real? its your spirit/soul/energy/conciousness or whatever. whats real to you is real, your there, so are they! so for you and them in "your" heaven its real! Edited February 12, 2013 by glezga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nocturnal Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 That seems even worse, you're stuck with a copy of them while the real them is somewhere else Maybe all are equally "real", and the universe/multiverse is as described in the "many worlds" theory of quantum mechanics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold Layne Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Cured ~ I'm not offended fella, so no need for apologies I did not mean to sound condescending, sorry if it came over like that. Explantaion: I am just tired of people hurling language like that at all and sundry who hold to any form of morality or even religion. By all mean disagree, by all means debate the issues. But... "Stick it up your fucking arse" ... really? That is what gets me tired and disillusioned. The constant dragging down in to the linguistic gutter of all and any debate about religion and morality. Its lazy, offensive to some, and takes the argument nowhere but the sewer. What, exactly, is your problem with "morality"? Is it all "misguided" in your eyes. Or is it just certain forms that offend you? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boojum Posted February 12, 2013 Author Share Posted February 12, 2013 The notion that some religious folks have (note the word some - I'm not claiming all by any means, not tarring everyone with the same brush, but some - and quite a lot) that they have a monopoly on morality offends me, and causes me to occasionally get all 'Boojum' and resort to swearing & stuff. Especially when, as I said in the opening post, I find the carrot and stick morality of heaven and hell to be childishly simplistic (and not particularly moral, actually - doing something good for a reward and not doing something bad to avoid punishment is not my idea of a moral code - genuine morality is doing good and not doing bad because that's just how you choose to behave). Being religious doesn't make one moral, and being an atheist doesn't make one immoral 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PureSmkr Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 I think what you've highlighted there in your op Boojum, is how its clearly all just a nice story which cannot be backed up by actual real things, like science. There's no heaven or hell, when you die your body goes back into the earth and the carbon cycle continues as always. It's comfortable for societies to believe otherwise, but reality is not such a grim view as it initially sounds; I like how it all fits together so perfectly, I will one day maybe be feeding a tree which has its own value and contribution to nature. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cursed Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 (edited) yeah i really didn't express myself very well there and your right that is a reflection on me. i consider myself to be a moralistic person an i feel i live my life very much following the treat as you would be treated ethos. i consider morality to be extremely important but i do feel it can be misguided and sometimes what is done in the name of morality is wrong. a lot of victorian morality was extremly misguided prohibition, workhouses etc etc. i went to a religious school and would have daily lectures on heaven and hell from my religious education teacher who also happened to be a priest; a man i considered to be morally reprehensible. i would be told i was going to hell for all sorts of things and in this sense he used heaven and hell as the 'carrot and stick' in boojums analogy. personally i think he could stick his 'misguided' morality up his bottom. my use wasn't a broad sweeping statement directed at all people of faith who believe; i have much respect for people like yourself who follow their faith on thier own terms and make heaven and hell what they make it not what they are told to by someone, particularly someone who would do and say the things he did to children and young people. It was directed badly at people of no moral value who hide behind a moral stance e.g. most politicians. i hope that explains my position a little better than stick it up your fucking arse. edit: i think boojum just kiind of said it for me Edited February 12, 2013 by Cured 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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