An opening statement from Dutch Passion

[DutchPassionTony]

got to say it fella your out door fem strains are very good

peace out farmer boy

cheers farmer boy. We work hard on them, Frisian Dew set a pretty good benchmark for our future outdoor varieties. Perhaps we can do something on this forum next time we launch a new outdoor strain ?

[Loam Gnome]

got to say it fella your out door fem strains are very good

peace out farmer boy

cheers farmer boy. We work hard on them, Frisian Dew set a pretty good benchmark for our future outdoor varieties. Perhaps we can do something on this forum next time we launch a new outdoor strain ?

Yes please us GG's are always eager to find great new outdoor varieties. Any plans or thoughts on 'semi auto's Tony? ta

Edited February 3, 2012 by Loam Gnome

[charas]

Hey DP nice post!

I like your seeds, only done a few,in and out, such as Mazar, PPP, Frisan, Flo.

I got a free Blueberry, and grew it out door this year, she finished second week of October, here she is, she produced about 4 or 5 oz of nice bud and a bit of hash

And a bit closer

C

[DutchPassionTony]

Hey DP nice post!

I like your seeds, only done a few,in and out, such as Mazar, PPP, Frisan, Flo.

I got a free Blueberry, and grew it out door this year, she finished second week of October, here she is, she produced about 4 or 5 oz of nice bud and a bit of hash

And a bit closer

C

Blueberry, a great smoke and nice plant there bro. She isn't the easiest strain to grow and we don't recommend her to new growers as she doesn't like stress at all. I bet the Blueberry hash was a treat

[prime73]

lo tony glad to have u join the ranks

i've got a baby twilight in my grow tent at mo just getting its 3rd set of leaves (i know now its an outdoor but site i bought did'nt say outdoor) but hopefully can keep it small till it's ready to flower

[hydro2]

Here are a few introductory words from a new look Dutch Passion. We are opening a forum here to let you see more of us and see how we have changed. We know we have suffered a lot of damage to our reputation with feminized seeds going hermie and with first generation Auto seeds giving poor results. We have put a massive amount of work into both areas and we hope to convince you that both these problem areas have been sorted. In the case of the AutoFem seeds the performance you can now get in good conditions may even surprise you. We will be giving away more seeds this than ever year to let you see for yourself how far things have improved.

We are looking forward to being here. We will keep running the competitions which we know many of you enjoy. We will help growers with questions. We hope to get closer to our customers than we have before.

Many of you were angry about hermie issues with our earlier feminized seeds and felt that the first AutoFem seeds were disappointing. Well, we agree they were and we have to apologise for this. We hope those of you that were upset can accept this apology. We took a lot of criticism for unreliability of the first feminized seeds, but today we have developed very controlled processes to create really trustworthy feminized seeds. We want to get things into the correct proportions too. Today, although we still offer non-fem seeds very few people want them. 97% of our seed sales are feminized and hermie issues are a rarity. We sell thousands of seeds every week and get less than 1 complaint per day. That is not too bad for any kind of business, but of course we aim to improve further. We try to deal with any unhappy customers in as fair a way as we can, you can contact us on our website, by post, by facebook, skype or in person in Holland. Where we can improve we will. And now you can also speak to us here. Perhaps we should have done this sooner.

The best AutoFems today are now unrecognisable from the first ones, and some of them are proving more popular than established traditional varieties. AutoFem’s such as our ‘Think Different’ have potency as good as the best traditional varieties, that certainly was not the case with the first AutoFems. Take a look at the current UK420 “guess the dry weight” competition to see ‘Think Different’ growing in a deep-water-culture. All the things we have learnt since we started with AutoFems 5 years ago have allowed us to rework and significantly improve all our AutoFem’s, especially the first varieties.

Anyone basing a scepticism of AutoFem/feminized seeds on experiences of a few years ago should take another look at how far things have moved. That’s one of the reasons why we are here. The ‘free seeds for a grow diary’ competition is one way for people to see for themselves what can be achieved and how far quality has been improved. Can we be any fairer and more transparent than that ?

When you are dealing with nature things don’t always go to plan, things may happen which you were not expecting. For the lowest possible chance of hermies traditional non-feminized seed may still be the best bet by a small margin, but feminized seed is nowadays not that far behind. And fem’s offer extra convenience - smaller grow rooms needing less energy means most people are happy to trust feminized stock and nowadays that trust in Dutch Passion feminized seeds is not misplaced.

Of course we wouldn’t still be here after 25 years if most of our customers didn’t like us and the varieties we have developed. So we look forward to spending more time here and getting to know you all better. Our seed collection has never been as good, there is a mix of time-proven classic varieties and some really top quality new varieties in which we would include our AutoFem’s

This is our 25th anniversary year and, as Withnail previously announced, we will be giving away (10) seeds to around 20 selected growers in return for a grow diary and smoke report. This is your chance to see for yourself how much we have improved and it wont cost you a penny. You can have ten seeds of one variety, or 2x5seeds of two different varieties. Or I guess 3 varieties x3seeds. We will be asking all growers to give regular updates and honest appraisals in their own words. All completed and regularly updated grow diaries will get a complementary merchandise pack and some free seeds on completion of their diary to thank them.

The best grow diary will get a €250 e-voucher to use on our webshop. Second prize will be an electronic voucher for €150. Third prize is the same for €75. You can spend that on seeds or merchandise. Any USA folk will already know that we can’t send seeds to the states, sorry in advance to them. We are looking for experienced growers, those with a good track record of documented grow diaries will be preferred. I will open a separate forum where people can put their names down for the competition which will be for indoor growers and guerrilla growers, we will announce the lucky seed winners in a couple of weeks. Good luck everyone and thank you all.

:clapping: Looking forward to trying some of your strains.

H2

Edited February 3, 2012 by hydro2

[DutchPassionTony]

got to say it fella your out door fem strains are very good

peace out farmer boy

cheers farmer boy. We work hard on them, Frisian Dew set a pretty good benchmark for our future outdoor varieties. Perhaps we can do something on this forum next time we launch a new outdoor strain ?

Yes please us GG's are always eager to find great new outdoor varieties. Any plans or thoughts on 'semi auto's Tony? ta

semi-auto's, and varying degree of auto's is something getting a lot of thought. That is especially true now that the general quality of auto's has reached a good standard in terms of potency and yield. That wasn't the case 5 years ago

My first comment on auto's is regarding yields. Anyone that has seen the Think Different growing in the 'guess the yield' compo here will have noticed that it shows crazy levels of production for what has been a 75 day life cycle. And in that time the root ball of the plant has filled a 20 litre bucket. One reason why this happens is that the ruderalis genetics allow the plant to soak up 20 hours of daily light (compared to 12 hours with photoperiod strains) and the plant continues flowering without reverting to veg. I added up that extra 8 hours of light per day over the 55 days (or so) that an auto is in flower is 400-450 extra hours of photosynthesis. That is around 5 weeks of 12/12 flowering if you think of it in 'photoperiod terms. A lot of extra bud production and resin from the growroom.

If you are still with me, that explains why you see some of the better auto's deliver growth rates that just don't seem normal by traditional standards. It also explains why auto-fans like them so much for indoor grows. I am keen to say auto's done outdoor more, but it is indoors where they can soak up loads of extra light and convert it to bud.

So, you can take this concept of the 'extra growth potential' of auto's and think what would it mean to, say a 100 day strain. I think for indoor growers semi-auto's , if they can go on a 20/4 light cycle could mean serious yields. And so it goes on. Could a 120day auto strain work? What would the yields look like under 20/4 lights?

It is an area with lots of thought going into the possibilities, I would be keen to hear a few thoughts from you guys too

[DutchPassionTony]

Good to see that your now on a forum. I like Dutch Passion. Tried your Mazar about 3 years ago on my very first grow. I thought it was amazing, but sadly didnt know about clones back then. I now have another pack sitting in the drawer waiting to be popped. I got the Power Plant and Skunk #1 on the go at the moment, they look nice (Started week 6 today). The Mazar and also White Widow will be in action in the next few months. They are all regular and I have only had 2 seeds in the first Mazar grow (which was probably my own fault).

The only thing I dont like is that you have discontinued the SkyWalker in regular form. There were some really nice 'coca cola' phenos in a packet around 2008ish. The femminised seeds in 2010ish were very Mazar dominant, but nor hermie issues. Not what I wanted, but was still good.

Any plans to get SkyWalker in regular form again?

Hello Rizla, Skywalker is indeed a lovely strain, though the regular non-fem seeds had very low sales and had to be dropped as a result. Sorry about that, I never say never, but it is unlikely that they will be re-introduced. Having said that, if you got the 'coca cola' pheno in regular seeds then there ought to be a good chance of finding her in feminized stock too. All the best with the Mazar and White Widow in the future too !

Here is a nice pic of white widow to savour...

[Arnold Layne]

Tony, thanks for your posts.

I cannot begin to tell you how very sad and depressed your figures about the sales of fems etc has made me.

I'm an old fart, and old fashioned into the bargain. I don't like Fems and I don't like Autos. I like standard, god given cannabis! That's just the way I am

What a dreadfully sad day this is for cannabis. Just my opinion, though. But I cannot help but ponder what the future will hold, given the state of the present.

Question for you: Do you think that 97% figure is due to informed horticultural opinion, or down to the fact that the seed-banks have been pushing the Fems and Autos on us like mad, with the result that a fashion/trend has been set?

Forgive an old man from waffling a while: Not so long ago an old friend asked me "Arnie, could you teach me to grow cannabis that is like yours?" As she was growing partly for another friend with terminal C (RIP you - not forgotten) I was very happy to oblige. I asked her "Why me?". Her response "I don't like all this modern stuff, its not right is it? I want to see how the old fashioned ways work"

I wonder how many other new growers out there, who lack any kind of horticultural background, are thinking like she did that day? 3% - but what does it mean in real terms?

She's still growing, and stoutly refusing to accept the fems and autos that folk try and fob her off with! My work there, is done

All the best Tony, I think you're doing a fine work for DP here. About time there was true inter-action between DP and their Growers.

[DutchPassionTony]

Tony, thanks for your posts.

I cannot begin to tell you how very sad and depressed your figures about the sales of fems etc has made me.

I'm an old fart, and old fashioned into the bargain. I don't like Fems and I don't like Autos. I like standard, god given cannabis! That's just the way I am

What a dreadfully sad day this is for cannabis. Just my opinion, though. But I cannot help but ponder what the future will hold, given the state of the present.

Question for you: Do you think that 97% figure is due to informed horticultural opinion, or down to the fact that the seed-banks have been pushing the Fems and Autos on us like mad, with the result that a fashion/trend has been set?

Forgive an old man from waffling a while: Not so long ago an old friend asked me "Arnie, could you teach me to grow cannabis that is like yours?" As she was growing partly for another friend with terminal C (RIP you - not forgotten) I was very happy to oblige. I asked her "Why me?". Her response "I don't like all this modern stuff, its not right is it? I want to see how the old fashioned ways work"

I wonder how many other new growers out there, who lack any kind of horticultural background, are thinking like she did that day? 3% - but what does it mean in real terms?

She's still growing, and stoutly refusing to accept the fems and autos that folk try and fob her off with! My work there, is done

All the best Tony, I think you're doing a fine work for DP here. About time there was true inter-action between DP and their Growers.

Cheers Arnold. From one old grower to another - I know where you are coming from and sympathise!

When the guys here started with auto's I honestly was not convinced about it and didn't believe that ruderalis would support decent THC levels or yields. I only really got excited about Auto's when I saw for myself what the decent ones could deliver. In this job you get to see stuff perhaps a little before the average grower. We were getting experienced growers telling us that their growrooms were more productive with auto's than clones. If you have seen the Think Different compo grow you will see the potential these auto's have. Today we get medical cooperatives telling us that their patients can't tell the difference between weed from auto's and traditional varieites.

As for fem seeds - was it a case of seedbanks pushing them on the market, or was it a case of buyers demanding them? The honest answer is that it was probably a bit of both. Going back to the 90's a lot of people said they would allow smaller growrooms, with less plants (less paranoia) and less energy. When fems came along they were pushed hard by the suppliers. Several seed banks, including us, learned a lesson and realised that they were more complicated than we first thought to get stable.

Nowadays I would say that most self-sufficient recreational and medical growers don't really consider regular seeds. The small percentage of people that insist on regular, non-fem seeds, do make a disproportionately large amount of noise about the need for non-fems. But for most of the seed buyers it is a non-issue. Remember we do offer non-fems on Blueberry, White Widow, Power Plant, Orange Bud, Mazar, Durban Poison, Shaman, Skunk #1, Master Kush, Super haze, Passion #1, Euforia, Hollands Hope and Purple #1. So it is not as if we have abandoned regular seeds, but we have seen them decline year on year. We like to keep them in the catalogue as those people that like them really like them. But non-fem seeds are in decline and there is not much that can be done to change what customers want to buy. For what it is worth we will keep going with non-fem regular seeds for as long as we can.

And as for new stuff coming in the world of canna, it is part and parcel of the business. I remember when people were complaining in the 80's and 90's that the indoor grower was un-natural and had contributed to the demise of traditional strains. To cut a long story short, a lot of early growers moved from outdoor to indoors as a result of crops being ripped. Once indoors, and with a controlled environment, people were finding - and wanting - more exotic stuff. Sativa varieties that were from jungle regions could be grown for the first time in europe but you had to be an indoor grower to do it. We even had to withdraw some classic and perfectly good strains as they were outsold by new strains.

A lot of traditional growers in the 80's thought that any kind of indoor growing was the devils influence and simply not as nature intended. Some of these guys got genuinely angry about indoor growers, they point blank refused to accept that it was progress. Nowadays if you were to eliminate indoor growing you would eliminate probably half the growers or more . Nowadays we all accept growing under HPS is quite OK and even 'natural', but we still raise an eyebrow when something comes along which is outside of our own traditions.

How can we accept growing indoors under HPS is Ok but oppose things like fem seed and auto's?. It is a debate which I have found myself on both sides of. For some northern euro, canadian and russian growers that can't grow indoors then auto's are the only option. These guys think the opposite - they think auto's are the best thing since sliced bread.

But Arnold, I respect the question and completely understand why it has to be asked.

[FAI]

What a refreshingly honest post, thank you.

I am a huge fan of your old strain 'Blue Moonshine' and have a cut that is well over 10 years old.

Do you have any plans to release the strain again?

ATB

Hi Man, Blue Moonshine, you can still get her on the website http://www.dutch-passion.nl/en/seeds/product/blue-moonshine/

And for info, even if a variety is withdrawn from the catalogue due to falling sales we always keep an ample supply of seeds in our genebank

And we continue to look at this strain carefully. Since you are a fan I will let you know that we are looking really closely at the specific 'blue' Blue Moonshine pheno for some of our ongoing future strain decelopment work. That doesn't mean we will get a stable, commercial product from it, it will depend on how the work goes. But that particular pheno has proved quite exciting to the greenhouse dwellers at DP.

Tony, thanks for your response.

Do you have any regular seeds of Blue Moonshine??

I can only see feminised Blue Moonshine on your web page.

[vince noir rock n roll star]

a good honest intro that was ..nice one ..not grown anything except flo from dutch passion ..never had any complaint with flo back then just wasnt my cuppa .

[Guest Nunsacred]

I'm all for feminised seeds, and photoperiod 'autos', and 'maturity' 'autos', and whatever else is out there, and I don't distrust new things by default.

progress happens one way or another

Can we have proper information about the flowering behaviour on the packets for growers? Particularly for outdoor strains.

We want to know if it's photoperiod or maturity or other factors which trigger flowering, and we want to know if the plant can be re-vegged & cloned easily indoors in a veg grow cabinet and which photoperiod is best for that.

If the strain's inconsistent, then fair enough, describe the intended phenotype(s) and their behaviour, and give a % occurrence figure for the phenotypes.

By providing this information you can show that your QC is an ongoing process.

Each seed packet's batch number should be searchable on your site to find a test grow diary. Maybe 6 date-stamped photos would suffice.

N

[Bad Penny.]

Frisian Dew set a pretty good benchmark for our future outdoor varieties.

Your only commercial competitor at the moment from the UK outdoor market is Femaleseedsnl and thats because of price,their Easy Sativa cost £800 for 200 seeds compared to £1400 for an equivalent number of Frisians,both are equal in yelds,and maturation date + or - a week,any other outdoor strains in the pipeline similar to Frisian?

[DutchPassionTony]

Frisian Dew set a pretty good benchmark for our future outdoor varieties.

Your only commercial competitor at the moment from the UK outdoor market is Femaleseedsnl and thats because of price,their Easy Sativa cost £800 for 200 seeds compared to £1400 for an equivalent number of Frisians,both are equal in yelds,and maturation date + or - a week,any other outdoor strains in the pipeline similar to Frisian?

Hi Bad Penny, if you ordered 200 Frisian Dews seeds on our website an automatic bulk discount is applied which would give you a price of 'just' €1100, so if you (or anyone else) wants to order in bulk just put them in the shopping cart and you can see the discounts that are applied.

And yes, work continues on outdoor strains but by definition (selective breeding, one season after another) it is slow work and with no guarantees of success either. To get in the catalogue it does need to be really good. But I have already told the guys at DP that the UK420 'Team Guerilla' would be a damn good test crew, so fingers crossed ! If we can, I would like to see some of you guys test the nest one. This year was the first time we allowed a customer to have a sneak preview prior to public release, which was when we gave Think Different to the guy that grew it for the 'guess the weight competition'. So we have set the precedent and why not continue it !