GSZZ Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 Just now, PHatDriver said: Didn't find anything on mandel & burbank. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luther_Burbank https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregor_Mendel That should get you started. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brock1 Posted July 8, 2023 Share Posted July 8, 2023 14 hours ago, PHatDriver said: Didn't find anything on mandel & burbank. F1 Hybrids will be different from each parent anyway, right. So I don't see a downside for me. Just gonna get a completely new strain that no one else in the world has tried, right. Could turn out from crap, to basic or might be real nice. Just grow and see. What about starting with two seeds from an already IBL strain. How would they turn out? For instance, I have: White Widow (IBL) Paradise Suppose to be IBLs... Also have a pack of: Northern Light (IBL) Nirvana It all boils down to numbers. If you inbreed you reduce the numbers that are avaliable to pass on each generation. On the other hand if you outcross/create a F1 you instantly Double the number. Be it a F1xF1 or IBL x IBL. This is the big difference right here that confuses people. If I made a True f1 from 2 inbreed lines I would pass on 2 sets of dominant geneswith little to no recessive from each parent. This will increase vigour because both are very dominant genes. Great F1 hybrid they will all grow similar & because of how healthy the genes are gell multiplication ect is going to be stronger and healthier. F1 x F1 we don't consider a F1 seed because these F1 have been breed to pass on a dominant only gene. Instead you get the chance of a recessive & dominant gene from each parent. Now you can get 2 recessive passed giving runts weak plants with not so great healthy DNA but yes their's some good in their also. So to find that 1 keeper in 10 seeds your would need 40 seeds. Both have pros & cons. F1 seeds have vigour, consistency, more healthier in general. Mutations wise you might find a polyploid. This when inbreed will fairly stable of spring but with more variations than the stable F1. Any polyploid breeding will breed triploids perfect. Hybrid Seed's on the other side have lots of variations even at F1. Great if you don't want to be smoking the Same weed everyday. Yer they will be more weak plants you can plant more & remove these if you have the seeds, time & space that no problem. As for the mutation side. You get genes passed damaged or unhealthy even on occasion missing. Is that a bad thing? It depends who you ask i guess. I think not this is can breed aneuploids. Things like fern leaf, self topping, self sterile, can be breed from these genetics. So one suits supply & demand while the other is better suited for the breeder to use. No consumer will want breeding seed from hybrid x hybrid because they can't reproduce the same consist results growing them out & would need a larger selection to find a keeper mother if a mother is a option that is. But if you doing it for fun & to find new strange phenos hybrid seeds are fine & hold some gems still. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHatDriver Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 (edited) Wow! This took me a week to process. Right, stand back, I'm going in... On 29/06/2023 at 0:54 PM, brock1 said: The trouble is finding the ballance between gene diversity & mutations from inbreeding. Mutation is generally worse so the safer option is always going to be large numbers. On 08/07/2023 at 11:04 AM, brock1 said: It all boils down to numbers... F1 x F1 we don't consider a F1 seed... Both have pros & cons... So from a sensible base line if you out cross you double the diversity, more vigour etc - I get that, thank you. Shoddy, questionable, non true F1s to F1s wont really true F1s. I see, interesting. Crossing throws different phenos and that's where one of the skills lie, like one side of your cross being more dominant? As in, crossing Glue with NL for instance. If you want a more NL Dom, you hunt within those crosses for a plant that's more on the NL side and continue crossing with that? So would backing to the NL also increase your %age side of that plant? This is way above my pay grade! But I'm here now, so... If it boils down to manly numbers, I could use both tents and do 50 plants per grow. 5x5 plants in each 2x2 tent. But that would be a SOG grow and wouldn't give a real representation of the plants true nature or potential. So beginning with real F1s would be easier to find but slower than starting with IBLs in the long run? Starting with landraces should be good as already inbreed type of thing. But I see how this works now though - kinda! Complicatedly simple - he says! So I could do this myself, even with lack of space, it will just take me a hell of a lot longer. Just concentrate on making 1 new strain as this may take a while. I can see how growing more plants, all at once, would facilitate identify plant selections and make it easier. And I thought this game way slow just growing the damn things. This is a nightmare, but have to play by the rules if you want your own nice stuff. So after finding a suitable male - like keeping a Stud (male bull) just for breeding. Just have to plod along, growing female by female, until that special girl comes along and start your 1st cross. Starting with 3 or 4 strains to cross. 3: Cross AxB. then cross AB to C. Giving AB/C F1 and then keep selfing? Or 4: AxB = E. CxD = F. Then ExF F1 and keep selfing again, F2/F3 etc. And it gets harder to ID for each consecutive F# because of variation? So not growing to IBL status (F18+) but at what F# is considered stable enough to be confident you have something stable? Would finding the best plants also entail keeping mothers of each plant in flower? How many real IBL's are still out there and are readily available? Aneuploids, polyploid, triploids You just gave me more home work. Fuank you very much... On 08/07/2023 at 11:04 AM, brock1 said: So to find that 1 keeper in 10 seeds your would need 40 seeds. Think this part fucked me the most, for the week! For 1 out of 10 ya need 40! Mind blownnn... Please reword that for me. Although I think I get you... Rewiring my old neural paths today is a lot harder than it was yesterday... Nice one my man, thanks for all this... Edited July 16, 2023 by PHatDriver 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHatDriver Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHatDriver Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 Downloaded Luther Burbank vol 1-8 - Internet Archive! Only got half way through book 1 so far. Haven't looked for Gregor Mendel yet. I'll get there... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brock1 Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 A old true Inbreed line requires over 100 plants each generation & taking to F18. 2 of these create a traditional F1 A S4 is also considered a IBL because it was the same genetic diversity as a F18 because the S1 breeding use 1-0 breeding. This isn't breeding a S1 then taking it 3 generation of Reversed breeding as some people claim. I have ever heard you cant seld a auto 4 times which is incorrect. If you store pollen making a S4 is relatively easy with any plant as the pollen is the P (Parent plant) being selfed. The main think is knowing your Parents plant/plants. The P1 & P2 or the most important thing in any breeding. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brock1 Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 Just now, PHatDriver said: Downloaded Luther Burbank vol 1-8 - Internet Archive! Only got half way through book 1 so far. Haven't looked for Gregor Mendel yet. I'll get there... Remember these book are kinda breeding Bible's and as such histrionic text written over 100yr ago. They don't cover a lot of modern breeding practices. How knows maybe one day I might get to show some historical gene tagging & some crazy genetic modifications as I think it would be cool. But for now even though I understand the process its not something I would want to do & certainly not publicly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKsFinest Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 10 minutes ago, PHatDriver said: Downloaded Luther Burbank vol 1-8 - Internet Archive! Only got half way through book 1 so far. Haven't looked for Gregor Mendel yet. I'll get there... Don't let that sweet zombie sit about mate what a banger that is I'm going to order some seeds now 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHatDriver Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 12 minutes ago, UKsFinest said: Don't let that sweet zombie sit about mate what a banger that is I'm going to order some seeds now Okay, well ya didn't have to convince me too hard. I will do my man, next grow. Flipping these on the 27th-ish. Got 6 different strains on the go and Expert Blue Cheese is clearly the stand out plant. As I said thought, haven't flipped yet but I like what is see so far. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brock1 Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 I am wanting to add some chem to my seed collection. Preferably using the 91 cut Any recommendations or i should I stick with Cali connections and pict through the hermis? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKsFinest Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 1 hour ago, PHatDriver said: Okay, well ya didn't have to convince me too hard. I will do my man, next grow. Flipping these on the 27th-ish. Got 6 different strains on the go and Expert Blue Cheese is clearly the stand out plant. As I said thought, haven't flipped yet but I like what is see so far. Nice one mate the sweet zombie I done was knockout I only had to put a tiny bit in a joint compared to normal even shared some with a proper fussy mate of mine and he was really impressed with it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHatDriver Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 (edited) On 26/05/2023 at 4:29 PM, brock1 said: I like chem#4 but blimburn chem#4 isn't the same as the ones I know. The ones i know are chem 4 x SFV OG and a chem 4 possibly skunk from TH seeds called The Hog when first released it. Blimburns is chemdawg x green crack. Make the chem 4 seems to be anything crossed chemdawg now You told me about Chem fella. I looked up the hog - Discontinued. You looking for a replacement? For what it's worth, I'm growing Chemdog Gorilla by Expert at the mo'. I'll let ya know in a couple months. It's the 2nd best plant I'm growing. Maybe: Super StarDawg by Real Gorilla [Chemdog 4 and Tres Dawg] Edited July 16, 2023 by PHatDriver 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brock1 Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 19 minutes ago, PHatDriver said: You told me about Chem fella. I looked up the hog - Discontinued. You looking for a replacement? For what it's worth, I'm growing Chemdog Gorilla by Expert at the mo'. I'll let ya know in a couple months. It's the 2nd best plant I'm growing. Maybe: Super StarDawg by Real Gorilla [Chemdog 4 and Tres Dawg] I am looking for strains high in VCS's not regular terps. StarDawgs nice but not what I am looking for. I like chem 4 or Boston Hogs breath as its sometimes called but its not a skunky as the 91. Its a lot bigger yeild & easier to grow. That's why I like it because its the only one chem I have grown outdoor without mould problems here also. I have a few chem crosses but really only looking for a good version of the 91 at the minute 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHatDriver Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 How is Chem 91 from Cali Cons? Any good? Other than the hermies part? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grooving Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 Some of these packs are well over 10 years old but have been kept in stable conditions so have hopes for germination when I get round to ‘em! Ghetto Blasters, Skunk x Widow and maybe some Blues for the next run. So many juicy genetics so little time and space. Will only grab subbie seeds these days if something catches my interest otherwise will work through these over the next 10 years. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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