A little (actually, a lot) advise plz

[Red Eye Knight]

ello :bush:

got a loada questions for u, if i do make sense tell me

ok, my friend and i r going to start growing. we r builidng 1.5m x 1.5m box that is about 2m heigh. the idea is that we will grow them under flourescent lights for flowering (prob 18 or 23w - def. cool light). during this peroid lights will be 2 - 3 inches away from each plant on 18/6. we will plant 10 seeds, in the end only keeping 5, but from wat i hear there isnt a guarnteed success rate for all of them. (seeds r White Pearl from High Quality Feminised).we will have a 150mm fan kit (from www.growlighting.co.uk) and also a 600W hps light with reflector for the flowering period (12/12).

here come the questions:

While still under the flourscent lights, is the watering the same as when under the hps (i.e. dont water till the top 2 inches of the soil are dry)? What about feeding/fert during this time?

I'm using those pots that disintergrate when soiled (the biodegrable ones) - r they a good idea to use? my m8 thinks that they will b better coz it'll save us having to move the plant - is he right? i know plants dont like to be moved but from wat i hear most ppl on this site dont seemt o have much trouble with that at all - r there ne draw back from using these containers?

How long should i keep the plants under the flourescent lights? I hear that about 2 weeks is enuf - yet my friend is insistant on 3 to 4 weeks! he argues that if we want huge plants we should let them grow for a lot lot longer (fair point)... yet we r also on a bit of a time scale, so im wandering that if we do keep them under for about 3 weeks, does that still mean that they will still need about 6 weeks under the hps (on bit of a time scale u c)?? will keeping them under the flourescent for that extra week increase the total yield of the plant + if it does would it b worth that extra week for such an increase?

Is there a particular height they should reach during this period? my m8 suggests about 1.5 feet, yet i thought the flourescent stage was only to promote root growth and that the main part of growing wil be done under the HPS, as well as flowering?

Do i need fans during the flourescent stage?

Another more practical question: i have no problem getting hold of the HPS, yet the flourescent is a diff story - can i just pick up sum energy saving light bulbs from homebase or summit? how will i make sure that they r cool white? anyone out there recommend a good one? also, growing 10 seedlings under one light is impossible if i have to keep the light about 3 inches away from each - any suggestions?

How big should the hps pots b?

and...... where could i get hold of sum hydrogen peroxide? can u recommend a specific label?

that about wraps it up... sorry that there so many questions, but i thought id get them over with in one big burst

if u can answer these i'll owe u one,

cheers - Red Eye Knight

[Red Eye Knight]

w00ps, just spotted the FAQ forum, maybe i shoulda posted this there

sorry if i shoulda

[Sal]

While still under the flourscent lights, is the watering the same as when under the hps

It all depends on your extraction the warmer the climate the more they will drink and as your using a 600 it gives off a bit of heat

How long should i keep the plants under the flourescent lights?

If your growing from seed about 8 wks to maturity

will still need about 6 weeks under the hps

This is the time it takes to flower it is a seprate phase to the veg period

Is there a particular height they should reach during this period?

They will stretch once you put them into flower under the hps but there,s no set height Taller doesn,t nessacerily mean more

How big should the hps pots b?

It all depends how many you want to get in your space i use 6x6x6

[Red Eye Knight]

8 wks under flourescent?

isnt that excessively long for a veg period? coz im gonna put it under hps for flowering...

[impsvi]

lo red eye knight,

not sure i can answer all of these, and dont forget to get a second opinion off some other memebers, but here goes.

1. Small plants dont need much water, but can wilt. Give enough water, so a lil bit of water comes out the bottom of the pot, then wait till the top soil is dry before watering them again (the pot should feel a little lighter). They will need daily monitering. Be warned tho, if the soil is always waterlogged no oxygen will get to roots and there growth will be slowed.

Personly i never feed a cannabis plant any fert until its at least 2 weeks old. (if your using decent soil wich u must for good plants!)

2. Surely the biodregradeble pots over time will biodegrade and all the soil will burst out on the floor? I dont think i understand..........

I move my plants all the time, as long as your not banging the pots or droping themi think its ok. I use square pots if possible, plastic or teracotta float me boat.

3. If u have very nice floercents say 300watt worth of strip bulb ones, then u would do well to keep them under the floroecents for a month or more.

But as i suspect u will only have a few energy saving light bulbs, i would reccoment 2 weeks under these bulbs, then move them under the hps for at least a month of 18/6 light. As long as you buy a bulb with a diverse light spectrum keep an eye of grow room tempretures, then hps is fine for vegging the plants. I reccomend a grolux bulb.

I guess if time is tight then...... 2 weeks under energy saving light bulbs, then 4-6 weeks 18/6 light under hps, then around 6- 8 weeks under hps for the plants to flower. If you grow from cutting you can harvest plants alot faster. (more tricky tho)

I cant see having the plant under floroecent longer will improve yeild at all, Infact if you dont have very good floroecents leaving the plants under these reletively weak lights will cause slow growth and in the end will reduce yeild.

I only use florecents at the start of my grow purely beacuse an hps light produces alot of heat and having the bulb close to a seedling will cause much heat stress, and if i have the light bulb to far away then the plant will strech up and probably topple over. I use florecents to get a few 3 and 5 blade leaves on the plants so they can make use of the intence hps light i would then put them under.

4."Is there a particular height they should reach during this period? my m8 suggests about 1.5 feet, yet i thought the flourescent stage was only to promote root growth and that the main part of growing wil be done under the HPS, as well as flowering?"

Yes as i said in the last answer, i use my hps for most of the plants vegative stage and flowering.

After 2 weeks of florecent light followed by 4-6 weeks of hps light the white pearl plants should be around 1 meter tall maybe more maybe less. It depends on how you grow them. You can trip the tops to promote bushy short growth this keeps the plants hight down. Or u can leave the plants to grown one main stem, this way they will grow tall very fast.

You can flower the plants as soon as mature an easy way to determine a mature plant from a unmature plant, is by looking at the steams....... do grow tips at the top of the plant form parralel at same hieght on the same brach or do they alernate with one tip slightly higher than the other grow tip at the top of the plant on the same brach. shite explanation soz.

Or buy checking were the main stem meets a smaller steam for preflowers.

5. well u only need fans when using floresents if there is a build up of heat in the grow room. I guess it can be useful to have a small fan to promote thick stem growth at an early age. To bigger fan and u will risk the plants falling over and or getting wind burn. thats if the fan is 2 big.

A very nice grow room temp is 27c

6. If u plan only to keep the plants under florecent light for 2 weeks than get 4 or 5 of those engergy saving bulbs (i buy any old one from homebase as i can never find cool white ones) and plug then into every desktop lamp u can find then plance these lamps over ur plants.

OR use sunlight for the first 2 weeks if you have window/balcony/roof exposed to a lot of light. I tend to be very fond of sunlight.

7.This what sizes i use. When they are germinated put then in small pots say 5-10 cm wide and 7-10 cm deep. After about 2 weeks when u put them under HPS, i put them in pots around 20-30 cm wide and the same deep. When i want to flower my plants, i like to put them in pots around 35-40cm wide and around 40cm deep. This is for BIG plants, say 4-6 under 600watt.

8. I havent the slightest clue was hoping i could get some info on that aswell.....................................

Hmmm well i hope this answers ur questions, i would reccomend getting somone like mono to check over my asnwers as he knows his stuff.

good luck

[strider]

Don't buy flourescents because you think they're the right way to do it. It's not true. Most peeps use them 'cos they can't afford a HPS and mistakenly think they'll do almost as well. (1 or 2 compact flos is OK for cloning.)

Once they finally get convinced an HPS is needed to produce bud, they get one, and the strip lights get used in the veg room.

Now if the strip lights can't produce bud as well as an HPS, why do people believe they are almost as good as a HPS/MH for vegging? Because they've already got them and they don't want to throw them away.

Look at the internodes on any floro grow posted anywhere, they're stretched to buggery. Then find a MH grow, there can be as many as 8 to the inch.

Light = Bud. It's just as true in the veg room as it is in the flower room.

[Red Eye Knight]

woah, cheers for the response impsvi - still absorbing most of the info - most of it v useful

strider... ermm... i have read from many sources that the frequencies given off by the cool white floros are the best for promoting good strong roots - which allows them to take up more nutrients when they r older. these same sources recommend the hps for the flowering as the frequencies there are best utilised. mind the floros are only for a week or two - and rest of veg wil take place under hps. or do u think that these 2weeks will have such a significant impact that it will effect the rest of the veg and flowering process?!

Edited June 19, 2003 by Red Eye Knight

[Sal]

8 wks under flourescent?

Yes it is a bit long but i misunderstood your question thought you were wanting to veg them under flos sorry for the mistake

[Red Eye Knight]

its ok m8e

i 4give u

wub j00

two more questions:

1. ive decided to germinate my seeds in soil - ive read how to do it - yet one thing bewilders me, which part of teh seed does the taproot emerge from? my hunch is that it's the pointy end

2. is there anyway to speed up the vegitation stage? or does this depends solely on fixed factors such as the light etc...

Edited June 19, 2003 by Red Eye Knight

[Labrat]

1. ive decided to germinate my seeds in soil - ive read how to do it - yet one thing bewilders me, which part of teh seed does the taproot emerge from? my hunch is that it's the pointy end

don't worry about that one, gravity'll take care of it. (Whichever way you plant the seed, the root will always grow down and the shoot up).

[strider]

Red eye, you've every chance of getting a great first grow in. You've got the space, and you haven't shied away from buying an HPS. So I'm assuming the budget is OK and you're a Brit. (Or a dumb yank that can't find a hydro store in the US.)

I've made just about every mistake a newbie can make, except kill a plant accidently. I'm an expert in screwing up, and come January I'm going over to a different system and a medium I've never used before. I've got my bubbler grow so easy I keep forgetting to check it, so the new system is to aid automation. In the room to take cuttings. In the room with rooted clones for the new grow. In the room to harvest. Otherwise bye bye plants. (btw it's 2 rooms.) This time I'm "going to do it right" and get advice from the guy who knows the system/medium best, and do what he tells me, and nothing else.

(He's got 72oz from 1Kw of lighting, so he knows his stuff.)

All details planned before I start. If I've got some cash left over, I'll split it with Joolz and Rick Garcia (Owner of the site I started with.) If the budget isn't quite enough, I'll save and wait. That's how it's done right.

I spend a lot of time reading newbie posts all over the net, and certain things are becoming clear.

First grow success depends mostly on the following.

1) Your space, more space needs less cash for ventilation. It might be cheaper to move home and gain an extra bedroom. (Yours is fine.)

2) Your budget. It must match what the space needs. If the budget isn't enough, it's quicker to save and "do it right first time" than waste money (and lots of time) on inadaquate equipment.

3) Your ability to make a plan. A successful grow is right before it starts. All experienced growers have a plan that works. It's called "The grow I did last time."

There are loads of cultivation sites, trawl the net until you find a good grower with your space and budget and copy him. You can tweak it later. If you run out of sites, do a google on site members who obviously know their stuff. This is YOUR money we're talking about, don't be believing me or anybody else without doing some research.

4) Your ability to stick to the plan. If I smoked a joint for every newbie post I've read saying "I decided to experiment with...." I'd never be able to walk again. WTF are newbies doing with experiments? Where's the control?

(I did a few as well.)

That's it. Whatever the system is, or what you know about lighting or CO2 etc. is of no importance. Reason being, this is your first grow, and the only thing to focus on is getting the crop in as hassle free as possible. (As long as you've bought the right lighting, just what do you need to know about it?)

Successful first grows have those 4 things in common. Guess what? They're usually female. Their bloody intuition knows when to shut down and ask for advice. They get it, they take it, and all the boys call them great growers. (In between experiments he he.)

I've gone on a bit 'cos you come across as sensible, and just a little confused from all your reading. (You've prooved you can read, big big plus.) You've got the space (and, I hope, the budget,) every newbie should have.

btw, your lighting question re. flourescents can be answered with an analogy. It's true the engine of a Mini is more efficient than that of a Rolls Royce, but on a straight road, a RR will blow off a Mini every time.

If it's OK with you, I'll stick with you all the way, and help you all I can.

All I want is for you to get a great first crop. Then any nOOb who comes to this site saying "How do I get it right first time?" can be answered with "Click here, Red Eye Knight got it right first time."

If you're interested, I could do with knowing the following:

1) Total space.

2) Budget

3) Monthly addition to budget

4) Weekly consumption required (make allowances for tolerance, friends, harems etc.)

Once I know 1-3, I can tell you how long it takes to get to 4.

Edited June 20, 2003 by strider

[pd666]

i use a 600w in my flowering chamber maybe alittle bigger in hieght than urs and it has heat problems so ull need exstraction but hps is definetly the way to go but fluros are good for veging same as m/h but i wouldnt use they pots ur using as u really want to move ur plants around so there all getting equal amounts of light and if there gonna fall apart that could be a problem unless you have a method of moving your light about ??

[strider]

fluros are good for veging same as m/h

paradox, I've got to disagree with that. The commercial growers have a rule of thumb regarding MH.

"A Metal Halide light will produce 1 cutting per watt every 7 weeks."

So a guy needing 300 clones every grow will use a 400w MH to get 400 clones and choose the best 300 from them.

No way on Gods earth is anybody going to get 400 cuttings from 400w of flourescents in 7 weeks.

I've kept a mother under 360w of flos. Never needed more than 8 healthy clones, so took 20. From the pruning that went in the bin, I could get another 60 max. MH produces the goods when vegging. Some evidence to suggest HPS with added blue comes out about the same. You'll never find a large op that vegges under flos. Now if that's the reduction in cuttings, how much bud are those flos really costing?

I'm not commercial, I just learned from them. Every penny they spend is cheaper than not spending it, but they're only interested in grams per watt. We only need 2/3/4oz a week, so I'm just trying to apply the principles learned by the big boys to us little folk who can't afford to waste any money.

Sure you can veg under flos, but Red Eye Knight has already said he can get HPS, but will have trouble getting flourescents.

[Altidude]

I SAW THIS IN THE OVERGROW FORUMS AND COPIED IT

just getting going myself - 2 weeks till germination !!!!!))))

---------------------------------------------------------------------

-snip-

This is what a friend is doing now and what I am building.

Emphasis on ongoing production as opposed to "one shots"

2 room plan (vegging under 24hr lights Flouro & 400wMH -- Flower under 12/12 2x600w HPS)

CYCLE ONE (getting going from seeds)

Use flouros for week 0-6, take cuttings asap (2-3 per plant & LABEL!) - take one cutting per plant and flower asap - (gives sex) - dump males

Take best female clones for mothering and put in stand-alone hydro pots under 400 MH ( maybe 3-4 moms, diff strains etc..).

Continue vegging other female clones under flouros till week 8-10 & use mothers to fill quotas.

Flower 6-12 weeks depending on strain

CYCLE TWO AND ONWARD (using clones & create "assembly line")

take clones from moms, veg for 2-6 weeks then into flower

Can use seeds or clones at any time. Can vary cycles lengths and stagger harvests as desired (atm harvest every 2 weeks).

All this in a room 1.8m x 2.2m x 1.8 (L,W,H) split in two with light proof curtain.

Friend is semi-pro.. he spent $700 in grow room & $800 in flower. Harvests 20 oz every 2 weeks. Also a stickler for a long curing period (3WEEKS!) but wow!

- end snip -

I think the real point here is that the 400wMH grows the mothers but all clones & seeds generally veg under flouros for 3-10 weeks then into flower.

I guess that means that BOTH metal Halides AND flouros can have role to play. Dunno if that helps but seems to be on topic.

This is what I want to do as well.... 2 weeks till I start ))))))))))))))))

[Red Eye Knight]

ur on strider

1) Total space. - it's gonna be built in a garage that isnt used for nething xcept storage, was planning on 1.5m x 1.5m at 2m high

2) Budget - this is an issue, money is slow to come by when ur poor. prob £20 for wood, £75 for seeds, £120(ish) for lights, £30 for fan; pots, soil, hydrogen peroxide, fert, litmus paper are considered negligable (but, yes they do cost in quantities)

3) Monthly addition to budget - nothing... but if money needs to b made thats not 2 much of a problem, wont b easy mind and i dont wanna buy nething thats not an essential.

4) Weekly consumption required (make allowances for tolerance, friends, harems etc.) - not the issue, i want to grow as much as poss if im growing about 6 plants to i want a minimum of about 5 ounces per plant. its not that i dont have a weekly requirement, i just smoke 'til i dont have any more left, also, i wanna push my plants to their peak performance - put them through their paces so to speak.

ciao

Edited June 21, 2003 by Red Eye Knight