Cantheism

[Guest Gert Lush]

....but I wouldn't be opposed to some suggestions of a more structured approach to cantheism...

To which I would like to ask/add whether cantheism makes any comment on the diffs between getting stupidly caned or responsibly using the 'erb to transport you. Or is this left up to the individual, too?

also - i would like to propose a cantheist symposium

I've heard worse ideas - at the very least it would show that there are people taking this seriously, not just Hvy slogging it on his lonesome.

PS. Is there any guidance on the subject of the munchies?

[utokia]

To which I would like to ask/add whether cantheism makes any comment on the diffs between getting stupidly caned or responsibly using the 'erb to transport you. Or is this left up to the individual, too?

It is definitely worth considering at this stage I agree Gurt - as it is probably going to be asked many times - informally and formally..

I've heard worse ideas - at the very least it would show that there are people taking this seriously, not just Hvy slogging it on his lonesome.

This is what made me think of the symposium

PS. Is there any guidance on the subject of the munchies?

My personal recommendation is mrs utokia's home made extra rich millionaires biscuit or her home made vanilla and butterscotch country fudge mmmm

[Guest FD]

For instance, abuse or disrespect of cannabis

wassat? calling ya bud a cunt, gert? dont diss the 'erb

[Guest Gert Lush]

My personal recommendation is mrs utokia's home made extra rich millionaires biscuit or her home made vanilla and butterscotch country fudge mmmm

Sounds like a right proper spiritual experience, mate!

Could this be incorporated into cantheism, please?

[Guest Gert Lush]

wassat? calling ya bud a cunt, gert? dont diss the 'erb

, shocking, mate, I know! You wouldn't believe how many times I've seen people do it, too. And worse.

(Though not always in words)

[Guest dr rockster]

Vegetal realities eh?

Sounds a bit 'cosmic'.

Sorry utokia but I thought that guy in that link was a cosmic waffler.

Machine/man conscious evolution he is talking about and other systems/practices/beliefs all mashed up and taking man to a new level of electronic interconnectedness and new or higher conciousness?

Dunno I'm not too clever when it comes to big long words like marmalade but I thought he was big on style and pants on content,at least as regards saying sometihng that actually meant a lot.

But what's your point re a symposium with respect to that article?

[bartman]

dont knock it till they have tried it

good luck in europe hvy

[HvyFuel]

Going to church, reading the bible, being good to your neighbour, loving god with all your heart, getting circumcised, not eating ham, observing Hannukah, giving charity, going on a Hadj to mecca, praying five times a day, wearing a special type of underwear, making a solemn declaration faith - a credo, meditating daily, circumambulating a stupa, venerating the Buddha, doing all-night prayer vigils, making sacrifices...

And you're going to do all that in court?

And what are your religion's requirements mr Hvy?

That a person uses cannabis spiritually. No other requirement required.

Yes, that would be a good steady approach. So why go for two?

We're not going for two, the GRO has breeched two.

[HvyFuel]

utokia, if it feels right to you, do it. If you want ritual and structure in your spiritual practices that's entirely your choice. But the CA isn't going to tell anyone how to manifest their spirituality or support one practice over another. Each individual's chosen practice is as valid as any other's.

Gert, me one my lonesome is currently 5,052.

Cheers Bart.

[Guest Gert Lush]

That a person uses cannabis spiritually. No other requirement required.

Maybe I'm being obtuse here, but I still don't understand.

You seem to be saying that using cannabis spiritually means simply saying that you're using cannabis spiritually, with no other criterion applied.

IOW, you might as well say "No other requirement except that a person says they are using cannabis spiritually".

That seems a bit weird, to say the least. Most other spiritual organisations have a minimal stipulation that (at least) everyone else in the community accepts your assertion. For instance, if I say I'm Amish, but every other Amish person says I'm not, then (at very best) I am a one-man Neo-Amish of my own invention! I can't even say I'm a "breakaway" Amish, coz I was never part of the Amish in the first place. Do you get what I'm driving at?

Say I join the CA. Does that mean that I am duty-bound to accept everyone else who joins the CA as a bona fide spiritual user? Suppose X joins and I am convinced that he is not really making spiritual use, but merely pulling a fast one. Since I am a member of the CA do I have to accept X's use as spiritual, because CA rules say that the only requirement is X's word? Will I be kicked out of the CA for breach of rules if I persist in not accepting X?

===

Anyway, I'm going to drop this now, coz I don't want to appear hostile, I wish you every success in your future endeavours, however I just felt I had to say there is a part of this that really doesn't exhibit "joined-up-thinking" to my mind.

Perhaps I'm just missing something.

Edited July 10, 2007 by Gert Lush

[Guest dr rockster]

Hi Gert,

no you're not being obtuse at all in that say,the American Native Church,that uses hallucinogenics as a sacrament would probably ingest them in a spiritual setting,ie a chuch,and have maybe prayer or ritual or meditation or music with a congregation in a church type setting and that would point to I think what you are talking about and would be seen by the powers that be to be the use of a 'sacrament' within a framework of something that could be seen to be a bona fide church.

But you don't need to go to church to worship God do you,course not.Maybe these Peeps use mescalin at home with friends and loved ones and that could still be seen to be legitimate use of a substance as opposed to getting off your tits down the club on a friday night but oh its my religion officer!

I completely understand Hvy's standpoint in that yes,whatever belief system you have,if canna helps you experience/think/feel any aspect of that belief better or differently or if it makes you in any way closer or more in touch with that belief whether you can put that into words or not you have a genuine right to have free and unfettered access to it according to EU law.

But,and its a big but,how could that be interpreted by the powers that be,ie the pharking UK courts?

It's a difficult one this to say the least eh guys?

Edited July 10, 2007 by dr rockster

[HvyFuel]

No Gert, membership of the CA would not give you the right to judge anyone else's use. We can't give you something that doesn't exist.

[Guest Gert Lush]

No Gert, membership of the CA would not give you the right to judge anyone else's use. We can't give you something that doesn't exist.

Doesn't that work both ways, though, Hvy?

If you haven't got the right to judge someone's use, how can you demand that your use be judged as "spiritual" by others?

There is patently no measure or standard here.

As a result you are reduced to demanding right of use as a human right (fair enough, I'll buy that), but there's no way you can claim it as a spiritual right since you refuse to define spiritual use at any level. So, in effect, you end up saying that what people do behind closed doors is their own bloody business and not the state's (whether it's spiritual or not) - but you certainly are not claiming any spiritual right, since by your own definition, it "doesn't exist".

[utokia]

Vegetal realities eh?

Sounds a bit 'cosmic'.

Sorry utokia but I thought that guy in that link was a cosmic waffler.

Machine/man conscious evolution he is talking about and other systems/practices/beliefs all mashed up and taking man to a new level of electronic interconnectedness and new or higher conciousness?

Dunno I'm not too clever when it comes to big long words like marmalade but I thought he was big on style and pants on content,at least as regards saying sometihng that actually meant a lot.

But what's your point re a symposium with respect to that article?

I know what you mean about waffler (I am perfecting speed reading from websites which helps!) - but in the context of what you might call an audio-visual or interactive artist, I think he is making some interesting noises (it also helps that I am familiar with some of his previous work).. I found him talking about many of the things that I have been on my mind, from a context that interests me at a time when I am thinking about Cantheism and Metaphysics - obviously ayahuasca is less sublime than Cannabis - but he talks about it's usefulness in being able to grasp some of the mysteries of the universe... the main point though was the mention of 'Conciousness Re-framed' the annual series of symposiums that are mentioned in the article. I thought it would be nice to spend a day or so mulling over some metaphysics and surfing tangents with fellow Cantheists and could be a productive/worthwhile effort.

utokia, if it feels right to you, do it. If you want ritual and structure in your spiritual practices that's entirely your choice. But the CA isn't going to tell anyone how to manifest their spirituality or support one practice over another. Each individual's chosen practice is as valid as any other's.

Gert, me one my lonesome is currently 5,052.

Cheers Bart.

I do agree with that, and respect you for concieivng of a branch of Cantheism that isn't about obeying rules or dogmatic guidelines - and is also not about profit or other means of exploitation, but I am thinking for new 'initiates' or 'members' of the broad church of CA - whether it would be helpful to suggest some responsible technique - not really rituals (altho i can perform the skinning up ritual with eyes closed now!) just hints/guidelines... in the same spirit as an open-sourced role playing game or something: 'here are some mechanics and some attributes - a couple of scenario's - you can play it by the book 'out of the box' or you can tweak the system yourself, cherry-pick the useful bits, but the most fun comes when you make it up as you go along' - sorry about the rubbish metaphor - I take game theory too literally myself sometimes

I will be developing my own rituals - I can feel them brewing as I watch my grow happen - I am bonded with the plants and this will play a part in my 'more effective' usage patterns once the crop is in.

[Guest dr rockster]

Utokia,about you speaking of ritualistic use of canna...

I suppose some of us already do such things,for example come harvest I like to have a little party with friends where I select some choice buds as we are all sitting around, and manicure them putting them in my special rolling tray which is an old Middle Eastern or African flat bottomed food bowl.

I then roll up for everyone and pass the smokes around and say if you want more just help your self don't ask.

Then when I start to see my friends start to smile from the fruits of my labours I only then light a joint myself.

Got light food and drink,cheeses and fruits maybe dates to eat.

The rooms been aired,tobacco ain't allowed,incence is burning yada yada yada,ya get me?

I do it as a celebration of a successful harvest really but cynics may just say I'm a showboating tart in front of my friends,dunno.

But that is ritualistic use of a kind but I'm not going to put sheets on and dance around a fire exorting Shiva to manifest himself!