Do You Believe In Karma?

[Father McPot]

The only thing I don't like to see is when someone who loses faith in karma decides to drop their moral code because of it... we should be good decent people even if its just for self respect's worth. I live as though it does exist, not necessarily believing in the mumbo jumbo part, but certainly believing in the part Father McPot explains.

But does the landmine salesman always get his?

Can't say I've met one but he/she probably does

[tsk]

kind of and kind of not. a bit like this ->

its nice to be nice. shit happens. what goes around comes around. for every action there is an equal an opposite cliche to match it, and so on...

i do believe in reincarnation. i dont believe we have to work off any debts of a spiritual kind. i think there is karma, but i dont take it as a law.

i reckon once we get out of The Big Meat Suit all information contained within /generated by/percived from inside it - changes. we dont experience emotions or thought or perception the same way as we do now since they are all filtered through TBMS, which is a construct/access point for interpreting the physical world.

once decloaked from these few cubic feet of bone and blood and meat then i reckon we're all part of the same thing, which is impossible for us to fully comprehend whilst not part of it.

i seem to remeber the Bahai faith had a fuckin brilliant explenation of the physical worlds construction, working parts and recycling process. the book Conversations with God by Neal Donald Walsh has some interesting angles and ideas regarding reincarnation (and god) and C.J. Jungs outerbody experience during his first death, as told in his autobiography, is well worth a gander.

personaly i try and be the best person i can. dont always manage it, but i try. being alive is horrible, but its been so beautiful. a bit like this ->

but i swear to fuck, if i have a choice, this is absolutely positively the last time in the big meat suit. i love my fellow man, but people do my head in.

birds and trees from now on. swear to fuck

[Leprechan Sweet Leaf]

Indeed, Karma is immutable and universal, so it operates whether you believe in it or not, and has its equivalent in the material world in Newton's third law, of reciprocal actions: 'for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction'. The operation of karma over life times isn't obvious to those preoccupied with day-to-day living in this incarnation, but those who engage with the work to heighten their consciousness apparently become increasingly aware of its operation and the mechanism speeds up, so that the karmic consequences manifest almost instantly. Or so my teacher told me!

Instant Karma? So what you are saying is that you get what you deserve regardless of your individual karma... Makes sense.

Good post Ninorc. Ye make me want to look for my krishnamurti books again.

[urban spaceman]

I like the concept and adopt the mentality of "treat others as you wish you be treated yourself"

I also use the above concept. however;

Indeed, Karma is immutable and universal, so it operates whether you believe in it or not, and has its equivalent in the material world in Newton's third law, of reciprocal actions: 'for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction'.

As much as I like the idea of Newton's third law, I have difficulty accepting the wording. It's the "an equal and opposite" bit which i don't agree with. I would have preferred to see it simply as "For every action there is a reaction". My reactions to things are not always opposite and rarely equal. Although I do acknowledge the differences between me and "the material world".

[Baba Ku]

Okay,, lets clear up some huuuuuuge misconceptions here. The laws of karma have nothing to do with notions such as bad things happen in the next life if you do bad things in this life. Buddhist and Hindu philosophy have nothing to do with punishment, and everything to do with the journey to enlightenment, which is apparently the natural state of being for all sentient life. Enlightenment is something that can never be explained or demonstrated, only experienced. Shakyamuni Buddha said "Our theories of the eternal are as valuable as are those which a chick which has not broken its way through its shell might form of the outside world" In other words our understanding of enlightenment is wholly determined by our current experience, so to speculate about it is useless, we can only know it by working towards achieving it.

Karma exists only to point us towards enlightenment. It has no other purpose. It is not out to punish us for our misdeeds, but to allow us to modify our behaviour so that we come ever closer to being enlightened. It does not judge us, because that would serve no useful purpose. We all own our own actions, and we all reap the result of those actions. That is basic cause and effect, not Karma. karma serves us like a friendly teacher. Karma serves us like a parent, lovingly pointing us in the direction of truth and understanding that will elevate us to a state of existence far beyond the earthly, troubled, existence we currently experience now. It can point us to a place where happiness is our natural state, and happiness and contentment is not only our daily experience but our right.

I hope this doesn't come across as being too preachy, but I've come across too many simplistic explanations of Karma not to speak out.

[Father McPot]

Enlightenment is something that can never be explained or demonstrated, only experienced.

Like trying to describe colour to a blind person, so I heard.

We all own our own actions, and we all reap the result of those actions.

So the bad results happen to us at the end of this life or in the next incarnation if we do a bad deed?

Wiki:

The explanation of karma can differ per tradition. Usually it is believed to be a sum of all that an individual has done, is currently doing and will do. The results or "fruits" of actions are called karma-phala. Karma is not about retribution, vengeance, punishment or reward; karma simply deals with what is. The effects of all deeds actively create past, present and future experiences, thus making one responsible for one's own life, and the pain and joy it brings to others. In religions that incorporate reincarnation, karma extends through one's present life and all past and future lives as well. It is cumulative.

Example: A man beats up a little old lady and takes her money. He is later run over by a lorry and ends up in a coma. Is that Karma working?

[theory]

I think I'm pretty lucky overall so I tend to think that makes me lucky too. If you live in England then statistically speaking you are too. In fact if you live in Europe you're lucky.

[Squaggles]

Very interesting reply Baba Ku . I guess people confuse the actual idea of karma with the more simplistic western idea that if we do good things then good things will happen to us .

Okay,, lets clear up some huuuuuuge misconceptions here. The laws of karma have nothing to do with notions such as bad things happen in the next life if you do bad things in this life. Buddhist and Hindu philosophy have nothing to do with punishment, and everything to do with the journey to enlightenment, which is apparently the natural state of being for all sentient life. Enlightenment is something that can never be explained or demonstrated, only experienced. Shakyamuni Buddha said "Our theories of the eternal are as valuable as are those which a chick which has not broken its way through its shell might form of the outside world" In other words our understanding of enlightenment is wholly determined by our current experience, so to speculate about it is useless, we can only know it by working towards achieving it.

Karma exists only to point us towards enlightenment. It has no other purpose. It is not out to punish us for our misdeeds, but to allow us to modify our behaviour so that we come ever closer to being enlightened. It does not judge us, because that would serve no useful purpose. We all own our own actions, and we all reap the result of those actions. That is basic cause and effect, not Karma. karma serves us like a friendly teacher. Karma serves us like a parent, lovingly pointing us in the direction of truth and understanding that will elevate us to a state of existence far beyond the earthly, troubled, existence we currently experience now. It can point us to a place where happiness is our natural state, and happiness and contentment is not only our daily experience but our right.

I hope this doesn't come across as being too preachy, but I've come across too many simplistic explanations of Karma not to speak out.

[theory]

Yeah that's how I've always seen it, but I do prefer the Baba Ku version so I believe in that now instead

[Baba Ku]

So the bad results happen to us at the end of this life or in the next incarnation if we do a bad deed?

Wiki:

Example: A man beats up a little old lady and takes her money. He is later run over by a lorry and ends up in a coma. Is that Karma working?

Bad things will not necessarily happen to you if you do what you consider to be bad things now, either at the end of your life or in the next. the key point to remember is that Karma exists to teach, not punish. The concept of punishment by a god or divine power doesn't really come into it at all in Hinduism or Buddhism.

If the man beats up the old lady and takes her money, but later realises the hurt he has caused and sets out to commit good deeds, not just to make amends for what he did, but also because he now realises that good deeds are preferable anyway, then he will likely not experience any negative result from that action. If on the other hand he never repents in this life and simply carries on with the bad deeds, then he may, in the next life, have negative experiences that cause him to step back on the path of kindness and compassion. For instance he may experience a very hard an impoverished childhood that makes him determined to earn money and set up a charity to save other children from the same fate. As I've said, it's not about punishment, because punishment very rarely achieves a change in a persons behaviour. It's all about teaching people to find goodness and compassion whatever thier circumstances might be.

[Leprechan Sweet Leaf]

Just a bit of Krishnamurti's writings.. Called enlightenment is not a fixed place.

"Truth is where you are. It is not in some foreign country, it is where you are. Truth is what you are doing, how you are behaving. It is there ,not in shaving your head or in all those stupid things that man has done."

"Why should one meditate and what is meditation? You know, if you looked out of your window in the morning and saw the extraordinary beauty of the morning light, distant mountains, and the light on the water, and if you observed without the word, without saying to yourself, "how beautiful that is,"

if you observed completely and were totally attentive in that observation, your mind must have been completely quiet. Otherwise you cannot observe, otherwise you cannot listen. So meditation is the quality of mind that is completely attentive and silent.

It is only then that you can see the flower, the beauty of it, the color of it, the shape of it, and it is only then that the distance between you and the flower ceases. Not that you identify yourself with the flower, but the time element that exists between you and that, the distance, disappears.

And you can only observe very clearly when there is nonverbal, nonpersonal but attentive observation in which there is no centre as the "me". That is meditation".

[The Two Ronnies]

I would like to beleive in Karma but I cant when I see thousands of people suffering the World over who have done nothing to deserve it, and if they had done something in their past life then how is starving to death going to teach anything ?

The World is a brutal place, nature is brutal and humanity is brutal, we didnt get to the top of the food chain by being nice, we got their by being the nastiest fucking killing machines in the Jungle, if it got in the way, we killed it and moved on.

Just be nice, if bad stuff happens, deal with it dont blame it on something that you MAY have done in a past life you MAY have had but have no knowledge or memory of.

[Blayz'd]

Karma is a law. The law of cause and effect. The law of action and reaction. Emerson said it was the law of laws. Many great scientific discoveries made use of this. People in general see karma as "You hit this person and in a few weeks someone will hit you". That isn't karma. Karma is cause and effect. Also, I'm not into any religions but I understand they all contain some truth. So I read many different books and cross reference. If one thing appears in many philosophy, science and religious books, it must have a base of truth. Therefore, I believe karma exists but I like to call it cause and effect.