True sativa

[chip]

Hi space cadet

I'm not too up on breeding but for what you are after (good sativa high, reduced height, shorter flowering) you could try crossing it with durban poison. You wouldnt be bringing in any indica traits, just the shorter flowering period of the durban and a stockier plant. Otherwise you need to look for a non dominant indica. So basically cross it with an indica and from the seeds, select the pheno that has maintained the most sativa like characteritsics.

I crossed NL5xhaze with afghani, and that reduced height and flowering time, but it also reduced yield . i didnt get a chance to grow out all the seeds i had, so there may have been some good 'uns in there somewhere.

You may want to post the same question in the breeding thread, see what ot1 has to say about it.

Chip

[Guest nonentity]

>>I crossed NL5xhaze with afghani, and that reduced height and flowering time, but it also reduced yield . i didnt get a chance to grow out all the seeds i had, so there may have been some good 'uns in there somewhere.

Consider that you have now created a double hybrid also and consider the wide array of variation that you are in all probability going to get. There is no doubt in my mind that you would find a more suitable pheno but as we all know ultimately breeding is a numbers game.

Now i will not comment on the availability and or authenticity of sativa strains available on the market as i do not want to be accused of anything least of all spamming (Anything for a quiet bloody life) but i am happy to comment on certain aspects of your project with the NL#5 x Haze x Afghani.

First thing i like to do when looking at plant crossing is to establish your naming conventions and notation so in this instance i would write the cross out like so:

(Sensi NL#5 x Haze) x (Afghani)

Now without getting into what the male contributes and what it does not due to the complexities of hemizygous chromosomes etc i can tell you that 50% of the genetic material must obviously come from the Afghani. So you have in the process of one cross reduced the (NL#5 x Haze) component down to 50%

In my general experience (for those that care over twenty years growing and crossing etc so not as ancient as Ot1 but i have been around a while ) the male contributes a lot such as:

stature/generic phenotype growth pattern

Flowering time

Yield

and even dare i say it "potency"

Now the Afghani (Which offering by the way - so far i am happy with Afghani#1 from Sensi as i have a 63-70 day pheno which i am happy with as i like longer flowering influence in a lot of my crosses) is known as a powerful narcotic strain that is popular but its one failing is that it is a low yielder and i only get around 14g dry (Full commercial manicure) per plant in small pots in a SoG under a 400W. You have simply found the beans with this trait passed on i am afraid. This is why they made SuperSkunk etc as the Afi was lacking in the yield department and would be a head stash only strain.

Sooooo....as a possible solution let us think about the often abused, often misunderstood technique of back crossing

Back crossing to me is a tool to either reinforce a trait or to add a trait quickly and then to semi stabilise it. You in this instance appear to have added three traits to the original F1 pairing of the NL#5 and the Haze. With the addition of Afghani you have added:

reduced height

shorter flowering time

lower yield

It is odds on that if you take one of the phenos and bx it to the original P1 Nl#5 x Haze female that you will modify these traits once again and in this case you would probably:

raise height a little

raise flowering time a little

increase yield.

However it is still a numbers game and while the bx as a tool is handy you must still make appropriate selections from the (NL#5 x Haze) x (Afghani) before you bx. No point reinforcing or adding traits from a sub-standard phenotype. I would recommend that you start at least 50 of the (NL#5 x Haze) x (Afghani) and make your selection from as wide a population as possible.

So you need:

P1 (NL#5 x Haze)

50 (NL#5 x Haze) x (Afghani)

and then in theory you back cross the most suitable male/males back into the P1. If you have the P1 strain available as a male that would be good as you could always run the cross in reverse etc as this will of course give widely different results.

A little long and i hope not off topic but it seemed to be a situation where this sort of model if explained could be implemented.

L8r...nonentity

[SpaceCadet]

Thanks nonentity, very well explained

[chip]

real interesting stuff nonentity. I will have to return a few times to really get to grips with what you are saying.

my attempt at breeding was, as is obvious, very amateurish. I am only a small scale grower, therefore, i am unable to carry out breeding programmes is the way you outlined. However, if i was to get the chance, i would try it again and backcross to NL5xhaze again.

Very informative

Cheers

Chip

[Guest nonentity]

>> real interesting stuff nonentity.

I am glad you think so as there is nothing worse than being boring when that is not ones intent

>> I will have to return a few times to really get to grips with what you are saying.

No problems and please keep in mind that this is not cast in concrete and is just a "strategy" not a "golden rule"

>>my attempt at breeding was, as is obvious, very amateurish.

It matters not as for me breeding is a goal directed activity that goes beyond a simple desire to propagate a species. What you are doing is obviously goal directed and you are attempting to increase yield on an cross you like while retaining the type of high and reducing and or maintaining at the same level, the flowering time. This to me is breeding and it matters not what you then chose to do with the offspring as long as your own goals are met. Don't ever let anyone tell you that you do not have the right to play with the DC gene pool and that you are a "hack" doing more harm than good etc You are satisfying your own aims and you are ultimately setting yourself free and what better high is there than freedom of choice and expression?

>> I am only a small scale grower, therefore, i am unable to carry out breeding programmes is the way you outlined. However, if i was to get the chance, i would try it again and backcross to NL5xhaze again.

No problems and consider that what i suggest is only a guide and you can modify it to suit your own conditions and circumstances. If you have the P1 NL#5 x Haze then make a selection to back cross to it from whatever size pool is best for you. You can also try different routes as well such as a bx with more than one male parent to the female parent to widen the pool a little. You can do the bx the other way as mentioned if you have the appropriate parent. You could also simply chose to line breed from the (NL#5 x Haze) x (Afghani) and just do it the slow but sure way with selections and crossing from each generation until at least G5. By that time you may have found a shorter flowering pheno with a higher yield which is what you want. So you see Chip there is most certainly more than one way to skin a cat

Let me know if i can be of any further assistance.

Nonentity.

[Mind Your Head]

I am all for looking after the plant the gene pool the environment and all but I must say I like this bit

it matters not what you then chose to do with the offspring as long as your own goals are met. Don't ever let anyone tell you that you do not have the right to play with the DC gene pool

ROCK ON! Hang the extremists first, then the elitists

MYH.

[Baba Ku]

If you could get a bit more than 6' height, then you could try this, Electric Haze, from BC Seeds:

This F-1 hybrid of Northern Lights #5 and Haze has won many awards. Known for it's extreme, almost psychedelic spaciness, Electric Haze produces a high that is brilliant, up and soaring, both powerful and subtle. The fragrance is complex and deep, with a dry "sweet and sour" perfume. The smoke of choice for connoisseurs and Sativa lovers. The longer flowering period is well compensated with a good yield of primo buds.

Flowering Time: 65-75 days

Height at maturity: 5-6 feet

Yield: up to 150 grams

Heritage Haze x N.L.#5

(F-1 hybrid)

Price: CDN $70.00

US $52.00

You can get them from Marc Emery, or direct from BC Seeds.

Seventy Canadian Dollars is about £28.25 at the moment.