Guest dr rockster Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 If there is a God, he/she is unlikely to bow to your need for such crude evidence Doc Get outta here Arnie as I'm not asking any fecker to bow before me and if landing on the Whitehouse lawn is crude well then what proof would a person need? Guy lands on whitehouse lawn,guns go all melty...............I'd certainly listen to what the God geezer was saying! That ain't crude that's pretty slick mate! He could have 72 virgins with holy machine guns as back up for the doubting Thomases. C'mon Arnie,don't tell me you wouldnt be impressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowdog Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 if you belive in god your be blessed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold Layne Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 Get outta here Arnie as I'm not asking any fecker to bow before me and if landing on the Whitehouse lawn is crude well then what proof would a person need? Guy lands on whitehouse lawn,guns go all melty...............I'd certainly listen to what the God geezer was saying! That ain't crude that's pretty slick mate! He could have 72 virgins with holy machine guns as back up for the doubting Thomases. C'mon Arnie,don't tell me you wouldnt be impressed. No, I would not. Such a god would be unworthy of true worship, being little more than a magician and trickster! I don't need any such proof Doc. For me, the Divine (whatever it may be) is a given, something I can no more deny than my own right arm. I'd love to be an atheist, but its quite out of the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dr rockster Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 No, I would not. Such a god would be unworthy of true worship, being little more than a magician and trickster!I don't need any such proof Doc. For me, the Divine (whatever it may be) is a given, something I can no more deny than my own right arm. I'd love to be an atheist, but its quite out of the question. Yeah it does have a bit of the sorcerers turning rods into serpents about it but my suggestion was just a general one Arnie,my earlier point being that if there was a benevolent God who had created the world for us,why would he not give definitive proof of it and then we would all be enlightened and could best live out our lives as we should and by his commandments. Many christian fundamentalists say we are in the end times and they do expect a visitation of this sort but Im saying he would be better off turning up at the beginning of the show,thus enlightening us to what our existance is about. If there is an intelligence who created the universe we may just be a tiny part of it and this whole universal show wasnt put on for us and we could'nt expect God to enlighten us because we may be of no more importance than a troupe of space monkeys on Alpha Dingbat 9 or the chess playing bacteria in Rupert Murdochs nose. My logic tells me to be an atheist but also keep an open mind. Maybe I'm an angostic,an atheist with a get out clause! When I'm on shrooms and I look at the heavens,it's as if every fibre of my being says this ain't the whole show. Death. Chapter 2 or the great void? :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold Layne Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 (edited) Fundamentalist (and other) Christians would argue that such proof as you seek has already been given Doc. Look at the stoies about Moses. Or consider the resurrection of Christ. Interestingly, evidence does not create faith at all, most just walk on by. Perhaps the Divine is best known via an organ other than the brain/mind? Death is just a transit from the time/space continuum into that which lies beyond. You may call it God, or Godess. I call it The Wyrd. Edited June 11, 2007 by Arnold Layne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gert Lush Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 (edited) I tend to be with Arnie on this one (re Dawkins), dr rockster I don't even mind his religious bashing that much, that's just childish and shows that Dawkins - despite his evident intelligence elsewhere - has not really taken the time to think deeply about religion/spirituality. The very fact that he regards some obscure English clergyman as the father of the idea of so-called "intelligent design" demonstrates how parochial his thinking can be. Such ideas were present as long ago as Plato, certainly by the time of the Hermeticists (as above, so below) - to reduce the argument to what some vicar said in the 19th century is disingenious at best. But where Dawkins really falls over is his total refusal to see anything but pure randomness as the driving force in evolution, and yes, he will froth at the mouth if you suggest it. In Dawkins' mathematical world, the following weird equation seems to hold: Consideringthe possibility of Intelligence in Nature = Creationism = You believe in a Jehovah with a beard that made the world in 7 days... nyanyanyanyaaaahnya... :P Sad, but true, I mean just look at the article that started it all. It wasn't even aimed exclusively at Christians. ANY myth (I assume that includes Hindu, Buddhist, African, Ancient Greek Theogony and Viking Saga creation myths) all automatically make you a "creationist". That's why I insisted it's so important to define what is "Creationism". Personally I like all the old myths. I particularly like the Scandivanian ones with Ygdrassil and all that. I feel that there is a grain of truth there, something not easily spoken, something which loses all its value when taken literally (i.e. subjected to the tender mercies of funamentalism), but something of real value nevertheless. If Dawkins can't see that value, OK, fair dues, no one's going to force him , but to dis them as total rubbish is probably a bit childish and stupid too. === PS. Although I do agree, these mythologies have a place, but it's NOT in the science curriculum. Whose ridiculous, PC idea was that? I would like to see non-Darwinian evolutionary ideas in the science curriculum though.... Edited June 11, 2007 by Gert Lush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowdog Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 (edited) Religion is created by man to explain what cannot be explained. Fear of the unkown creates religion, a comfort blanked for mankind if you please. It beggers belief that any intelligent open minded person could believe in ANY religion or a specific "magic man" who presides over that particular religion. The only true religion is my religion which is Gaffolosism & it only costs £36.50 to join. Gaffer do you take a cheque?Only kiddin.Well i just cant see how you cannot belive in a higher power you doubt it.Me i belive that jesus the man with the beard .Its actually the the crown which is the holy ghost,holy sprit and his crucifixion that has meaning.Was and still is my savouir..The romans even went as far as not wanting to know anything about the bible.You cant work it out.Neither can dawkins darwin einstein blahdee blahdee blah.So all of this is by chance o.k.Iwas told by a christian that god never gives up on us oh and god is angry with man Edited June 11, 2007 by snowdog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dr rockster Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 (edited) This is doing my head in but I want to come back to this. Just spent 20 minutes typing a sentence by sentence reply to your last post Gert and there was a flicker in the power and I lost the post. But never mind that as I've just had the jehovah's witnesses at the door! Aw man,they never give up.Havent seen them for about 2 years as they used to call and I would chat and have a cuppa but it was more for me to try to convert them to sanity than having them save my soul. I even(please don't laugh)went to a service with them.Came and picked me up and took me to their church.They kept asking me to go and I always refused but one day these 2 other JW's turned up and there were these 2 of the most beautiful girls I'd ever seen in my life and I immediately twigged that they'd been sent around especially.honestly they sent 2 really good looking girls to try to cajole me with smiles and stuff to get me to the service.It reminded me of a fundamentalist sect in the states that sent its better looking girls 'flirty fishing'.The papers called it 'hookers for jesus'. So I had to go,as after all they went to this trouble so my curiosity was piqued.The girls were nice,as nice as squeeky clean JW girls can be,in their Marks and Sparks finest.I mention that becuase they place a lot on looking neat and wholesome.Revolting really! It was as I thought it would be.It's an American based cult who believe the bible to the letter. The most beige group of people I've ever met in my life who really don't want to think for themselves and are just sad sheep really. They bashed trinitarianism in the service which I pulled them for later as I said I didnt come to church to hear them dissing others but that's as about as worked up over anything as they got. And their hymns must be the elevator music of hymns.Not trying to be mean but they were just awful.Hymns can be beautifully uplifting and I particularly like Jerusalem but their offerings were hard on the ear and merciless on the spirit.Not their singing but the hymns themselves.They just sounded like they were written in their world HQ or something. I'm too tired to answer your last post Gert but it must be answered,oh yes.I just feel really drained today and don't want to wrap my head around any more philoserfical thoughts. Did'nt take much to get the Jw's packing though. After these 2 dear biddies had done their sales rap I held up my hand and said: Ladies,is rock and roll the devils music? They looked a bit puzzled and then at each other muttering,'oh I don't know really' but they have furrowed brows and are thinking seriously about this as if to give me the answers so I can free my soul from satan by burning my record collection or something. I feel so sorry for these people but I have no right to really because if they are TRULY happy believing obvious nonsense,well let em get on with it but I did say 'truly' happy and organised religion doesnt bring happiness to most churchgoers as they are fence sitters who go to church because their parents went to church and because'its good for the kids' and not because they truly believe. I've got to go see that parish priest and get myself excommunicated from the church as I'll not be counted as one of them anymore and want my soul back! To think I used to be an altar boy. Edited June 11, 2007 by dr rockster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dr rockster Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 Hi Doc, I know what you mean it takes some reading. It was all I read for a few years along with Gurdjieff's All and Everything. It made perfect sense at the time, in a world where nothing seemed to. Vietnam was still raging , acid was the order of the day and Dylans songs rang bells like no tomorrow. Meditation had come to the West wholesale and together with In search of the miraculous was indeed shelter from the storm, it's still raining btw. What do you mean by" in any way conclusive to actually teaching anything about what they were trying to put over?" and what do you think was trying to be put over. Appologies if of topic, but I thought squaggles observation spot on. Take care folks. Hi Niceone, sorry,if I said conclusive I meant condusive to teaching anything.By that I mean I tried to read it but parts of it just seemed too esoteric information wise and I could'nt take on board the gist of what was trying to be put across.I picked it up,put it down,tried to absorb the content but I remember it as being too bloody weird! Could you give us a little idea of what it's all about? Gurdjieff was a strange one wasnt he?He seemed to talk in riddles,liked to confuse you,but for a purpose,no?That's what some peeps who've met him have said.That's just something I read about him and don't really know anything of his philosophy. I've yet to meet anyone who has told me anything about him really. Little man in a beard and bowler hat,very unimpressive to look at as I remember. Had more of the ticket collector than the Svengali about him. Did'nt you have to furnish lots of cold hard to join his group? Apart from being at the head of his philosophy has he ever done anything? Sorry if my questions sound clumsy but I know nothing really about this strange man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father McPot Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 Bugger, forgot what I was going to say. Ah well. Another thing: The way I see them (the big 3 in particular) - It's just more rules to abide by. As if we haven't go enough from those fascist cunts that run this country. I think living your life by the "golden rule" is the best a human can get without giving money to some arseholes who tell you that you will die if you do not submit to a being who may not exist. Or telling you to submit to a being who does exist but juts wants you to live in harmony without bowing to anything/anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowdog Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 (edited) Science recons that it all comes from the forehead.So stoners dont let your mind cloud when your stoned pretty tall order .The universe supports you,life supports you.got that from paul mckenna hypnotherapy c.d.If you go after god you`ll be even more blessed as for JW there only human.And god only knows.About whats right and wrong.Buts its free will and i never could figer out why he lets the devil exsits.Perhaps when i die and lose.Dmt is it where you lose 7 grams of you brain weight quarter of weed in it.Sorry just lack of weed.Whats happens when i cant chill oh well.Maybe i`ll see you`ll around you never know. Edited June 11, 2007 by snowdog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lifeizfab Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 Religion is created by man to explain what cannot be explained. Fear of the unkown creates religion, a comfort blanked for mankind if you please. It beggers belief that any intelligent open minded person could believe in ANY religion or a specific "magic man" who presides over that particular religion. The only true religion is my religion which is Gaffolosism & it only costs £36.50 to join. Gaffer I would add that historically religeon was necessary for the control of populations and then I think you are spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RED-EYE-GEEZA Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 muslims seem to have a hard time believing evolution, maybe an open open discussion will de-bunk the myths of organised religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squaggles Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 A Muslim Cleric v Richard Dawkins ? I'd buy a ticket for that . muslims seem to have a hard time believing evolution, maybe an open open discussion will de-bunk the myths of organised religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dr rockster Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 Thanks Niceone and no,not head banging at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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