Digital Ballasts And Lumens/lux?

[oldtimer1]

I for one will be very interested in what you find murren. As I said I have not tested a ballast made by the Winkon factory as sold by the uk420 shop.

[Guest HomeGrown]

if u wrap silver foil round a mobile phone it blocks the signal

mad people wrap silver foil round them to block signals from satelittes !!

dunno if it will interfere with the guts of the ballast but worty a try

[Bish]

if u wrap silver foil round a mobile phone it blocks the signal

mad people wrap silver foil round them to block signals from satelittes !!

dunno if it will interfere with the guts of the ballast but worty a try

Not a good plan with a ballast i'd have thought.

[Guest HomeGrown]

i would have agreed with a magnetic balast...but digi not magnets for foil to mess round with

or cover room with foil

Edited January 21, 2006 by HomeGrown

[Redseal]

if u wrap silver foil round a mobile phone it blocks the signal

mad people wrap silver foil round them to block signals from satelittes !!

dunno if it will interfere with the guts of the ballast but worty a try

If it's coming from the bulb then covering the ballast won't help though.. that's the problem.

If it's covering the whole AM band on a radio then realistically it's probably interferring with a lot of other frequencies aswell, most of which are in use one way or another so could end up with people trying to trace the source. All the harmonics that RF interference creates and what not. Sounds like quite a big issue

[Guest HomeGrown]

sum1 should try covering the walls with foil under the mylar

[murran]

sum1 should try covering the walls with foil under the mylar

Even if covering the walls with foil did work.Its a lot of hassle,like OT1 said I want a unit i can just plug in and use,not have to do load of precautionary measures before i can use it with peace of mind.

Murran

[paulusgreenthumb]

does said ballast give off a signature that other household appliances dont ?

PGT

[Redseal]

does said ballast give off a signature that other household appliances dont ?

PGT

I can't think of anything in a house that gives off that level of interference. If neighbours radios were being affected they could complain to Ofcom who'd then try and locate the source.. not sure if their new detection system's in place yet but they claim it will (or already can) pinpoint sources of interference. Way too dodgy to use digital ballasts if that's the norm and not just some defective units.

[Guest gunnaknow]

I'll ask my friend who checked the emissions for me again the next time I see him, he did say it could be done, but that it would be down to changing the output stage of the ballast/switched mode power supply. I suppose that would be down to the manufacturer.

The only other way was to shield the room.

OT1, please let us know what your friend says. Thankyou for chiming in on my thread. If; and it's a big if; the radio wave output can be vastly decreased, digital ballasts would be a growers dream come true. More buds for less cost and less noise.

What does "changing the output stage of the ballast/switched mode power supply" actually mean OT1?

I do know that radio waves are the lowest frequency electromagnetic waves on the spectrum. Below that of visible light, infrared and microwaves. As you said in your first post, digital ballasts cause the arc to work at a higher frequency than magnetic ballasts. This seems to be what is causing the radio transmission. It seems that a magnetic ballast doesn't cause the arc to work at a high enough frequency to cause radio waves to form. If the digi ballast could be adjusted to lower the frequency at which the arc works at, it may cause the frequency to become too low to form radio waves.

However, if it's the high frequency caused by a digi ballast that is actually causing the lamp to produce more light than a magnetic ballast, adjusting the digi ballast inorder to lower the frequency at which the arc works, would decrease the light output of it, largely cancelling out the advantage of a digi ballast. Unless the amount of frequency adjustment needed to stop formation of radio waves is fairly small.

Edited January 21, 2006 by gunnaknow

[Guest gunnaknow]

http://www.csgnetwork.com/freqwavelengthcalc.html

"You may have noticed that the electric power supplied to your home is rated at 60 Hz. Electric power is distributed by the power company as alternating current (AC), meaning it goes through a sine wave cycle of changing directions of flow. When we say that electric power is 60 Hz, we mean it changes the direction of flow (cycles or hertz) 60 times in one second. Radio waves go through far more cycles in a second than electric current, and we need to use bigger designation units to measure them."

The frequency that standard ballasts cause the arc to work at is around 50 hertz, according to OT1. This seems to be down to the frequency at which the electricity from the mains flows at. Unless it is a coincidence that electricity from the mains flows at the same rate as the arc in a HID lamp works. They seem to be related.

"Radio, in various forms, is usually thought of beginning at frequencies of approximately 5 kHz, though most commercially readily available receivers only have the ability to tune frequencies down to about 150 kHz."

At 50 hertz, the frequency at which an arc works with a standard ballast is far below that which can form radio waves. To stop a digi ballast causing commercial radio interference, it needs to be adjusted to only cause the arc to work at below 150KHz (150,000 hertz). Which is 3000 times higher in frequency than that caused by a standard ballast, so adjusting a digi ballast to this level should still allow it to produce much more light than a standard ballast.

However, ships and aircraft use lower frequency radio than commercial radio, so to insure that the radio transmission caused by a digi ballast isn't picked up by aircraft above the area, one would need to find out the frequency that most aircraft use and adjust the digi ballast accordingly.

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/archive/ra/...339/part6-1.htm

Looking at this link, the lowest international frequencies used are allocated for radionavigation and maritime use. The lowest frequency used is around 14 KHz (9,000 hertz). Adjusting a digi ballast down to this level, would cause the arc's frequency to be 280 times higher than that caused by a standard ballast.

Edited January 21, 2006 by gunnaknow

[Guest gunnaknow]

"The lowest frequency used is around 14 KHz (9,000 hertz)."

I meant '(14,000 hertz)'.

[S2001]

OK, I have one that I bought from UK420 running now. 600w I live in a remote area so I'm not too bothered, I can visualy see that this ballast puts out more lumens

How can I test the waves around ma hoose, ave sat wi ma mobile and phone next ti the ballast, alls fine, been in ma car wi the radio and all fine

P.S The walls in ma cottage are 2 ft thick, I can go talk to my neighbours and ask them if they have interference, they know I love my digital gadgets, I only have 2 neighbours and the farmer is 150 yards away

Edited January 21, 2006 by S2001

[oldtimer1]

S2001 as I said the interference is on the AM medium wave band, so you need a radio with medium wave band, most cars are FM only. All ours in the house are FM or DAB not a flicker on them in two months use, I had to find an old portable transistor radio that had medium and long wave.

Its unlikely your walls if brick will stop radio waves although stone walls with some metallic elements in the rock may reduce them dramatically.

Personally I don’t see a point in discussing/speculating how the problem is fixed, its something the manufacturer need to deal with.

The reason I posted about it, was I consider that its a security risk and felt members should know so they were aware of the possible risk.

As a comment or two on other points raised.

Single phase mains supply in the UK is at 240v RMS at 50Hz not 60Hz.

Electronic ballasts are as far as I know are a type of switched mode power supply, they have been around for some time for fluorescent lamps, are mainly used in offices and stores. Depending on the make the output frequency start at 28kHz upwards. The higher the frequency the more efficient they are.

Standard ballasts are just current limiting inductive devises with power factor correction. Standard ballasts work at mains frequency like auto transformer do.

Yes you could shield a grow room, the walls, floor, ceiling, doors and duct would have to be covered with metal foil and every sq inch would have to be connected and the whole thing earthed. Who on earth would even consider doing that in the real world or its practicality in every day use. The mind boggles.

[Guest gunnaknow]

"Single phase mains supply in the UK is at 240v RMS at 50Hz not 60Hz."

I figured it would be, if HIDs have a frequency of 50Hz but I didn't know if you were initially giving a rough number on HID frequency or not, so I quoted what I read about US mains frequency because I saw a similarity with the 50Hz you quoted for HIDs.

"Electronic ballasts are as far as I know are a type of switched mode power supply, they have been around for some time for fluorescent lamps, are mainly used in offices and stores. Depending on the make the output frequency start at 28kHz upwards. The higher the frequency the more efficient they are."

If flourescent lamps have this kind of ballast too, shouldn't people growing under flouros and compact flouros be cautious about radio interference too? If they're not getting busted after years of use with lots of flouros or CFLs, it would suggest that digi ballasts are ok to use too, atleast in moderation.

"Yes you could shield a grow room, the walls, floor, ceiling, doors and duct would have to be covered with metal foil and every sq inch would have to be connected and the whole thing earthed. Who on earth would even consider doing that in the real world or its practicality in every day use. The mind boggles."

It might be feasable for those who have grow cupboards though. Maybe metalic paint would be easier to apply, if it works.

Edited January 22, 2006 by gunnaknow