Silicon?

[Gaijin]

Afternoon folks  

 

So I recently chopped a tent full of extremely sticky buds. Terrible they are  However, while the buds were solid, the stems/branches were very weak. Almost every single top in the tent had to be held up with a yo-yo. When they were released on chop day, the plants literally looked like hanging baskets; stems like soft liquorice (funny I used that simile; one of the crosses that made these was called Blue Liquorice  ) 

 

Now, I did notice today when I was emptying the 10L pots of their compost, that the roots were less than impressive. A lot of space with no root in it

 

I think a while back it was @fatboy77 who told me that 5 zips is a good yield from a 10L pot. I got 3 zips per plant from these. 

 

To get to my point, the rootballs on these were less than impressive. Did I simply not veg this lot for long enough to root out the pots? Or is there something about cuttings and roots that I don't know about, when compared to seed plants?

 

I needed a bread knife to cut the rootball up from Neza's Cheese Pie, but these I could break up easily by hand: 

 

 

Then we get to to Silicon  

 

A little light reading led me to believe that silicon as an additive can be used to strengthen stems/branches. If I read correctly, it's not something that the plant actually needs, but if it's there, the plant will use it. Then I read a bit further and there was talk of having to prep the silicon additive properly first; if it precipitates out while being mixed, it's worthless. Instructions on some brands do not mention this; they just say "add Xml per L to nutes". 

 

Would you use silicon? Should I? 

 

Or did I just have weak branches because I didn't have the root mass to produce big thick branches? I feel that I've read that better root mass will produce a better yield, but I don't know about any connection between roots and branches. I'd imagine there is a connection but I don't know.

 

Thanks for any advice  

[Cursed]

I’ve always used plant magic bio silicon. It strengthens stems (seems like within 24hrs) but it’s easy to over do it

 

[Brysee]

I'm no expert mate far from it but didn't some people on here say that cuttings with the virus show weak branches as one of symptoms

[a handful of grapes]

I also read that diary where someone was blaming weak stems on no silicon, and got to wondering. Maybe this'll be one of the variables that's worth giving a poke in a clone grow next year, should one of my current ladies turn out to have especially weak stems without added silicon so it'd show a difference if there was one to see.

 

That being said I've not seen silicon particularly recommended in coco or pure hydro grows, so either it's already present in the coco/hydro specific nutrients, marginal as far as micronutrients go, or something else.

[Gaijin]

29 minutes ago, Cursed said:

I’ve always used plant magic bio silicon. It strengthens stems (seems like within 24hrs) but it’s easy to over do it

 

 

One of the ones I looked at. When you say, don't overdo it, I have a tendency to never use as much as what the bottle instructs. If it says 2ml/L I'll probably only use 1ml/L  Or is it safe to use as described? 

 

@Brysee yeah I can see where you might think that, but it's not that. They are healthy stems, just not really designed to hold the load at the top  I did have a couple of bigger tops stay upright the whole way through, but only a couple

@a handful of grapes I was reading somewhere that soil contains only half the silicone that a plant could theoretically use. Adding it isn't necessary, but can make a difference apparently.

 

I'm running clones again so maybe I'll try a little half and half experiment, see what happens

 

Thanks guys  

[Cursed]

1 hour ago, Gaijin said:

When you say, don't overdo it,

I think the recommended dose is 0.5ml/L every other watering and only up until second week of flower. I’ve never had issues when following that. 
 

There is a thread somewhere with Arnold layne’s experience of using way to much and it caused him issues with final harvested buds, I think they didn’t burn properly and tasted like shit. I’ll see if I can find it, might be lost to the mists of time and sub-forum closures.

[Gaijin]

Just now, Cursed said:

I think the recommended dose is 0.5ml/L every other watering and only up until second week of flower. I’ve never had issues when following that. 
 

There is a thread somewhere with Arnold layne’s experience of using way to much and it caused him issues with final harvested buds, I think they didn’t burn properly and tasted like shit. I’ll see if I can find it, might be lost to the mists of time and sub-forum closures.

 

Thank you  I've got a little bottle of Shogun brand arriving tomorrow, picked at random. I'll give it a go and see what difference it makes this run. They won't have had the benefit from day 1, but a good few weeks until 2nd week of flower should be enough to see if there's a difference. 

 

of course, I plan to veg them longer to root out the pot better, so that may help also

[Black Shadow]

I’ve been using Shogun silicon for years and have the strongest stems of any weed plant I’ve ever had 

 

I use it most of the way through flowering like the feed chart, it’s cheap and has no drawbacks IMHO 

[Black Shadow]

I’ve been using Shogun silicon for years and have the strongest stems of any weed plant I’ve ever had 

 

I use it most of the way through flowering like the feed chart, it’s cheap and has no drawbacks IMHO 

 

@Ganjin What are you using for your root feed?

[stu914]

 

23 minutes ago, Gaijin said:

bottle of Shogun brand arriving tomorrow

 

24 minutes ago, Gaijin said:

I plan to veg them longer to root out the pot better,

 

One or the other bud otherwise you'll have no idea which is making a difference, if any...

[Military Grade]

Theres more than one type of Silica one better than the other but i can't remember what one is which.

 

I use Vitalink Silicon Max and it really does make a difference to branch stiffness, it's also meant to help with some pests.

My current project i desided to do a run without it and the Chelato is letting me know about it

needing supports

 

like @Cursed said my last grow i think i went to deep into flower using it and the bud don't burn properly on one of the plants, and is what prompted me to try without it this run, tho i would use it again next grow when i do one big plant in a scrog net.

 

 

As for roots there are many factor's like rooting out pots properly, potting up at the right times, using root stimulates ect.

[Mugwuffin]

I find pinching the stems during veg greatly helps their strength during flowering, if you wanna get super technical there's a specific growth hormone that massively bulks up the stems.

Edited October 3, 2023 by Mugwuffin

[sweettooth]

you would do yourself better with some air pruning pots too.

 

my current run, i have some cubes that are rooted out, others that dont show many but theyve all been fed the same amount and same frequency, I guess some just grow moe than others, its these that we want to keep and weed out the weaklings

[DeltaMelter]

@Gaijin It (root development) is partly strain dependent imho mate so don't beat yourself up about it When you look at how the clones of a plant root, how quick and vigorous etc that's usually a clue. Example: I have a Francos Lemon Cheese on the go at the minute and its feeder roots are all over the topsoil and poking out everywhere like vines. She's barely 18 inches tall but stacked. None of the other cultivars in there are like her and they've all had the same feed and conditions. Her clone rooted first too so keeper material there.

 

Saying that if you do try silicon then you are right about it precipitating out of solution, your water needs to be at least pH 7 or a bit lower. My water is 8.2 from the tap (ffs) so if I add it straight then you can see it turn into a cloud and just sink out to the bottom. I had to use acid pH down to get my pH below 7 to add it in and get it to stay in solution.

 

I jacked it in after using it on 2 grows, it makes a difference for sure but I changed a load of variables (including feed and medium) went organic and never went back to potassium silicate

[Shumroom]

Vermiculite is an excellent source of silica 

 

But this will make your old root balls stand out in the garden. 

 

Atb