ExpatGrower Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 So I have my plants in 2 gallon pots, (auto watering system finished soon) After the initial water in 3 ec veg solution (Athena Nutrients), before transplanting the clones, I left them till day 6 (today), before watering again until a slight runoff. I checked the EC going in and it was more like 3200, but the runoff ec is only 1200 or so, ph is 6.4, a bit higher than my nutrient solution going in. Is this normal to have such a low runoff ec? The color was quite brown from the coco. I hand watered 200 ml every few minutes until I achieved runoff. Manual until I finish my auto system. Thank you! [MY4KKJ-7E56K] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravsta Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 Yeah thats fine your plants are taking nutrients which lowers the ec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Green Manalishi Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 Your runoff should be roughly the same as your input, it sounds like your coco isn’t buffered properly and is scavenging calcium and magnesium from your feed. 3.2 ec going in Is that not a tad on the hot side? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExpatGrower Posted October 2, 2023 Author Share Posted October 2, 2023 Just now, The Green Manalishi said: Your runoff should be roughly the same as your input, it sounds like your coco isn’t buffered properly and is scavenging calcium and magnesium from your feed. 3.2 ec going in Is that not a tad on the hot side? For Athena, 3 ec is the aim for week 1 of veg, I'm not sure how accurate my ec meter is as it's one of the budget ones but I followed the measurements very closely so it should add up to about 3 EC. That's a bit scary what you're saying... I did soak it thoroughly with numerous waters in the nutrient solution as I was instructed to do by the manufacturer. Is this something I can fix at this early stage by some good thorough waterings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Green Manalishi Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 I don’t have any experience with Athena nutes but calcium and magnesium are required to replace what the coco is holding onto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExpatGrower Posted October 2, 2023 Author Share Posted October 2, 2023 So normally in this case I guess I just keep giving good soaks in the correct solution and it will buffer? https://ibb.co/8scxdJ5 This is a picture of the EC Targets for Athena, it's kind of weird the aim is to get a higher EC output, than you put in, during vegetation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Green Manalishi Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 mature plants will give a slightly higher runoff but not by much, once the exchange of ions has taken place in the coco your runoff will be roughly the same as your feed, keep an eye out for early signs of a calcium deficiency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilgePump Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 That Athena chart looks all kinds of wrong, goes against everything that makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSZZ Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 4 hours ago, ExpatGrower said: This is a picture of the EC Targets for Athena, it's kind of weird the aim is to get a higher EC output, than you put in, during vegetation. a higher pwEC (pore water EC) can be used to trigger a kind of drought stress (even though there isn't technically a drought) which induces a quicker transition to flower, and less lateral growth amongst other supposed flowering benefits, this is why Athena is recommending people run at those silly high input EC numbers but what they neglect to mention is that you have to be running co2 gas, with very high levels of lighting, and substrate monitoring equipment, to be able to pull it off "correctly" - you have to use the high input EC whilst monitoring the moisture level to know when to irrigate, just simply reading input and output EC is inadequate. I've said it before, but if anyone is gonna use Athena, unless you have the proper monitoring equipment, I would stick to normal input EC numbers. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai Stick Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 The Athena dudes are pushing their product really hard over here. Like @GSZZasaid, you need all the proper monitoring equipment, lighting and co2 to push those high numbers otherwise you will end up with fucked plants. Bet they didn't mention it the other month and the other day when their rep was down our neck of the woods @ExpatGrower Its not cheap either. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilgePump Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 Ah , hardcore crop steering, it all makes sense now 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExpatGrower Posted October 2, 2023 Author Share Posted October 2, 2023 44 minutes ago, GSZZ said: a higher pwEC (pore water EC) can be used to trigger a kind of drought stress (even though there isn't technically a drought) which induces a quicker transition to flower, and less lateral growth amongst other supposed flowering benefits, this is why Athena is recommending people run at those silly high input EC numbers but what they neglect to mention is that you have to be running co2 gas, with very high levels of lighting, and substrate monitoring equipment, to be able to pull it off "correctly" - you have to use the high input EC whilst monitoring the moisture level to know when to irrigate, just simply reading input and output EC is inadequate. I've said it before, but if anyone is gonna use Athena, unless you have the proper monitoring equipment, I would stick to normal input EC numbers. I have everything you mentioned, apart from C02... I believe the numbers on their chart are a base line without c02, you can push higher if you know what you're doing, know your genetics and have everything tuned in, i.e not me lol! I'm basically using moisture sensors in 3 pots, I take 4 readings each, then average the result which gets processed by python code i made using ChatGPT, running on an Arduino, which then commands 3 pumps to run in sequence and water 3 plants at a time using netafim netbow drippers. The code is programmed to follow the crop steering according to Athena's guidelines. It's really as simple as checking if the moisture level has dropped 30 percent, then water small shots every 15 minutes until the moisture breaks 95%, timer off until the following day. For Veg. A big part of it is taking the runoff ec readings, to calculate if you should increase or decrease the amount of runoff. This gets more important during flowering, to stack the EC and go hell for leather! But yes currently I'm only 6 days from transplant and a newbie with coco, after a few grows in living soil. Thank you so much for the comments guys, I guess after a week of further waterings if the EC doesn't rise there is some kind of issue. Regarding Athena... I spent over a year trying to nail living soil, no till coots recipe, I got pretty ok results but vs some weed I tried grown in Athena, it isn't comparable, after months of watching podcasts and researching, plus experts from BC and california telling me Athena is the best program right now, I now really believe it! It's indeed another level in difficulty though! As Thailand is flooded with cheap, shit quality weed, I'm going all in, all or nothing for the best, or nothing lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKsFinest Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 How much have you spunked on Athena mate do you want to buy the blended line up off me Just kidding think I'll use it one day.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExpatGrower Posted October 2, 2023 Author Share Posted October 2, 2023 Just now, UKsFinest said: How much have you spunked on Athena mate do you want to buy the blended line up off me Just kidding think I'll use it one day.. It's not that much honestly! Not sure of the conversion to pounds, but it's not much more than I was paying for the imported BIO Bizz stuff here. They've really properly established themselves here and the salts are cheap to ship i guess! I've replaced balance with potassium silicate (same thing, 20x cheaper), cleanse with hypochlorous acid, exactly the same thing but 20 x cheaper, so just the Grow, Bloom, Fade, and Core. I'll maybe buy stack, but probably just use my biobizz Bloom since its kelp, same thing but cheaper! So about 150 quid all in for the nutrients, enough to grow about 1-1.5 kg of seriously delicious, smooth smoking weed! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKsFinest Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 I'm glad you haven't paid over the odds mate, I have the stack and as you said mate it's just kelp so go with a cheaper alternative if you want to add any at all. I didn't pay for mine I got it all for free they got in touch on Instagram so I had a touch I think the blended line here in the UK is ridiculously expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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