The Athena Bandwagon

[ExpatGrower]

Hi guys! So I've been growing in living soil, no till, for my last 3 grows, the whole time super pro growers have been telling me to make the jump to Athena and after still not achieving near the quality of some of the hydro stuff I've smoked, I've decided to jump on the bandwagon! 

 

I just have a question to start... Are any of you actively growing with it, and do you think it needs the dose of bloom at the start? Rather not mix up a batch if it wont be used for a month... I'll be growing in coco/perlite, 70/30, with an automated watering system with moisture sensors in each pot. 

 

Cheers!

 

 

 

[zen-ken]

Yes, I use the pro.

 

I wouldn't use it in coco....the profile will be wrong for the calcium stealing coco.....mineral wool or water culture works best.

(You could address this with the cal mag but you would be dragging the nitrogen with it!)

 

I have some I mixed up over a month ago and it's still good.......HOWEVER

Keep it out the light...make sure the bottle u keep it in was sterile first!! - Failure to do this will lead to a bacteria forming snotty streaks in it.

 

Use Nitric acid for PH management as this also helps you find a better PPM for nitrogen to sit at 

 

Use the fade.....its awesome 

[ExpatGrower]

Thanks for the good advise  I'm going to use coco as it's what a master grower friend is doing and he highly recommends it over rockwool for numerous reasons, mainly in my case its more forgiving, and he swears the quality is better. Thats a solid point though about the PH... I guess Balance is the best option, although bloody expensive here as they ship the liquids not salts. 

 

P.s do you feed that day 1 bloom as recommended? 

 

Edited September 17, 2023 by ExpatGrower

[zen-ken]

With all due respect ....did your master grower friend tell you how you were gonna solve the issue of the calcium cation exchange in the substrate and would he like to share how he managed this without taking the nitrogen with it and unbalancing the nutrient equation ?

 

No, Balance is not the answer.....It's just more potassium. (although the silicon is handy) 

 

I didnt say I prefer rockwool...I dont....But I swear you will have problems in coco unless you prep the shit out of it first.

 

I feed hard from the start tbh....but do not follow my schedule as this is for RDWC feeding....what seems hard to me would be baby's piss to you in coco.

 

(dont use the balanced line unless you enjoy paying for water)

 

 

[ExpatGrower]

He's not telling me much at all actually, I just figure out bits of what hes doing, but 99 percent i've figured out online! The guy was doing very well in the BC market with a multiple hundreds of lights facility and is replicating the setup here.

 

I will ask but I can see he's running Balance this time around. Funny you say that about Balance, i may just try purchasing the chemical but i tried this with Athena IPM, its main ingredient is citric acid. So i found some guides online on using Citric acid as an organic fertilizer and ended up bleaching/burning my plants, but the Athena IPM didnt. I'm guessing its cause they chelate it so it dissolves better... total amateur theory! I hope that doesn't happen when using straight active ingredients of Balance.

[zen-ken]

Balance is watered down potassium silicate....if you want silicon in your grow use GG mono.

 

Just don't use it in water culture with air stones as it bubbles up like fook.

 

 

 

 

[ravsta]

Sensors cant read perlite so your better off with just coco

[ExpatGrower]

8 hours ago, zen-ken said:

With all due respect ....did your master grower friend tell you how you were gonna solve the issue of the calcium cation exchange in the substrate and would he like to share how he managed this without taking the nitrogen with it and unbalancing the nutrient equation ?

 

No, Balance is not the answer.....It's just more potassium. (although the silicon is handy) 

 

I didnt say I prefer rockwool...I dont....But I swear you will have problems in coco unless you prep the shit out of it first.

 

I feed hard from the start tbh....but do not follow my schedule as this is for RDWC feeding....what seems hard to me would be baby's piss to you in coco.

 

(dont use the balanced line unless you enjoy paying for water)

 

 

 

I'm a bit confused by what you said about the nitrogen... 

 

The athena pro line feed chart tells you the PH to aim for, with coco, and you pre-soak it at that ph in the solution. 

 

So what's the issue with it stealing calcium? Surely they are giving instructions that take this into account? It's the official guidelines for rockwool and coco, both slightly different.

 

Quote Canna:

When the water used to mix nutrients is very soft, then the concentration of nutrients has to go up or the coco will rob the nutrients and a Calcium deficiency will begin to show. This is exactly due to these issues.:

So I guess fixing the ph first with Balance as instructed by Athena will fix this, if it's what you meant?

 

 

I don't want to ask my friend till i fully understand it!

Edited September 18, 2023 by ExpatGrower

[zen-ken]

You would need to pre buff the coco with a low nitrogen Cal-mag....not Potassium 

 

Balance will make it worse !! its not the PH you should be worrying about tbh 

 

Problem is.....You can buff the shit out the coco....as you water and disturb the substrate....you expose more sites for exchange.....with this in mind you will need the Cal mag on hand and you will have to factor in the extra nitrogen when making nutrient mixes.

 

I haven't spoken to the reps in a while.....But Im pretty sure they don't suggest you use it coco for this very reason (although take that with a pinch of salt as they said it also wont work in RDWC - Look at my diary and tell me it doesn't work  )

 

Im sure your friend already knows this and will tell you the same thing 

 

[zen-ken]

I see they now recommend using coco......I apologise as this is new.

 

I still stand by my original comment of prepping the coco correctly.

 

 

[ExpatGrower]

5 hours ago, zen-ken said:

I see they now recommend using coco......I apologise as this is new.

 

I still stand by my original comment of prepping the coco correctly.

 

 

I've contacted Athena support direct and will let you know what they say

[ExpatGrower]

They replied saying, coco just needs soaking in the Veg solution, so I guess it has everything already worked out...

[catweazle1]

On 18/09/2023 at 9:38 AM, zen-ken said:

I see they now recommend using coco......I apologise as this is new.

 

I still stand by my original comment of prepping the coco correctly.

 

 

I think you are on the right track. The extra Ca/Mg they add to coco formulas is to offset the gradual breakdown of coco particles exposing new Cation Exchange sites during the grow, and assumes the starting coco is well buffered beforehand to potentially address any QC issues from the coco farmers not processing it properly.

Edited September 19, 2023 by catweazle1

[ExpatGrower]

On 9/20/2023 at 0:13 AM, catweazle1 said:

I think you are on the right track. The extra Ca/Mg they add to coco formulas is to offset the gradual breakdown of coco particles exposing new Cation Exchange sites during the grow, and assumes the starting coco is well buffered beforehand to potentially address any QC issues from the coco farmers not processing it properly.

 

Yeah I'm currently doing as they suggested, soaking my coco for a day or 2 in straight nutrient solution, will then drain it, let it dry a bit before transplanting young seedlings into it and watering as normal...

 

Im debating starting a youtube channel!

[catweazle1]

6 hours ago, ExpatGrower said:

 

Yeah I'm currently doing as they suggested, soaking my coco for a day or 2 in straight nutrient solution, will then drain it, let it dry a bit before transplanting young seedlings into it and watering as normal...

 

Im debating starting a youtube channel!

Overnight will be enough. It's what I do.