Possibly back at NFT.

[GreenVision]

Hi again all, back at UK420 for a bit as I'm in a "Growers change up" phase right now. My current grow will likely be the last in a tent for at least the next few years or more.

 

I'm having to go back into the loft as the kids are getting older now and I cant keep up the excuses of why they "Cant go in there".

 

I'm going Hydo 100%, I'd love to go Aero as it suits me and I love its simplicity and low water usage.... But... Height is a major issue.

 

I've gone over every system known to man and the one I keep coming back to is NFT. It's known a loft growers friend as its low to the ground, cheap and easy to fill etc. Its been a while since I've used NFT and TBH I found it a pain in the arse to grow with. It can go FUBAR at the drop of a hat. But the lowest "Pot type" system I've found is approx 35cm high, NFT is 22cm high. I cant ignore that in a loft that has a highest point of 180cm.

 

 

So Im genuinely begging for anyone that has or does use NFT to throw some wisdom at me as its been some time since my last NFT grow, think it was 8 years ago now I done my NFT diaries on UK420. I'd really like to avoid NFT if i'm being honest but its looking like it could be the best choice for the space by quite a margin.

 

A few NFT Q's I have atm:

 

• Can I run a chiller straight into the run tray? So thats out the res, through the chiller and straight onto the roots.
• Do thinkgs like Pthyoff etc work in NFT? As the water runs under the film does it even do anything?
• Does RO and RO mix work well in NFT as it does in RDWC ect?
• Any specific nutrients that work well in NFT? Think I used Canna before but GH Nutrients work brilliant in my aero cloner.
• Whats the PH like in NFT? Does it fluctuate as bad as it can in other hydro systems?
• Has anyone used the rockwool cube caps? I remember the green shite building up on the cubes but now they sell those caps that go on top to avoid alge etc.

 

 

Any help to any of the above would be smashing.

 

Thanks.

[HazyHashMan]

@GreenVision I've never needed a chiller for nft even in summer but ur loft conditions might be different. Frozen bottles of water work if you don't mind the work, the skinny 1.5 litre bottles work well and keep the tank cool for a good 12 hours so you can alternate those every day or put 2 frozen bottles in to keep it cool a bit longer

 

As for pthyoff i use silver bullet as a safety precaution.

 

RO water works in NFT i recommend 60/40 ro-tap water.

 

As for nutes Canna aqua and Advanced sensi bloom work very well in NFT. I found General hydroponics was bad for NFT as it built up salt way more than i was use to but canna and advanced nutes as both mint for NFT.

 

PH in veg between 5.5-5.8. In Bloom 5.8-6.1

 

You can use rockwool cube caps but the cut outs from the correx top tray work fine or you can make ur own from some cheap waterproof sheeting. I've started using soil in NFT now as it's easier, i just start them off in 4 inch pots and cut the bottom 2 inches off and plant straight onto the top tray like that

Edited July 4, 2023 by HazyHashMan

[stu914]

@GreenVision

 

Are you dead set on nft GV? If not it might be worth having a look at what I do,

can't really get a much better system to give you max height.

NFT is an absolute bitch with so much to go wrong as I found out to my cost when I began this lark...never again...

This is a modded 1m x 1m Flood & Drain and you can do the same with any NFT table

 

More pics in my profile...if you fancy it give me a shout...

 

 

 

Edited July 4, 2023 by stu914

[GSZZ]

2 hours ago, GreenVision said:

Can I run a chiller straight into the run tray? So thats out the res, through the chiller and straight onto the roots

 

It might be worth looking at those top up stop cock add on things you can get, and top up from an external tank and chill that, if you've got the space. Otherwise I'd just in/out the actual tank rather than out onto the run tray. It seems a better idea to me to let it mix back into the tank first.

 

2 hours ago, GreenVision said:

Do thinkgs like Pthyoff etc work in NFT? As the water runs under the film does it even do anything?

 

Yeah they work, but like hashman said silver bullet is the weapon of choice these days. Can't remember the last time I sold a bottle of Pythoff or Microbial.

 

2 hours ago, GreenVision said:

Does RO and RO mix work well in NFT as it does in RDWC ect?

 

Yep I'd cut tap with RO till 0.4 ec

 

2 hours ago, GreenVision said:

Any specific nutrients that work well in NFT? Think I used Canna before but GH Nutrients work brilliant in my aero cloner.

 

all the proper hydro growers i know use either canna, gold label or growers ark.

 

2 hours ago, GreenVision said:

Has anyone used the rockwool cube caps? I remember the green shite building up on the cubes but now they sell those caps that go on top to avoid alge etc.

 

Id just use a bit of black and white cut to shape with NFT to cover the rockwool. That being said, have you considered recirculating dripper with RW cubes? Like stu suggested, bodge a gt100 into a dripper - use those 6" hugo blocks with the floraflex caps. I wouldn't use the rest of the floraflex range though its just expensive cos its green.

[GreenVision]

@HazyHashMan Hi mate.

 

I'll be running 6 CMH units, and if I do go NFT it'll be a pair 901's, same as I used before, so I though at the very least a small chiller might futureproof me in summer months.

 

I'll defo go with Silver Bullet, been some time since I've needed anything like that but I had a look and it sems like good stuff.

 

Good to know Canna are still good nutrients. Always liked how they were stable in Hydro so I'll likely go with them whichever system I choose.

 

Thanks for the help.

[GreenVision]

@stu914  Hi ya bud, tbh I'd rather steer WELL clear of NFT. I've used it before and I've never known a system so prone to root rot. Keeping that area between the film and correx sheet below 20C lights on is all but impossible. On top of that I remember having my last two tanks delivered. They guy just knocked on my door with them not even wrapped up. I actually did a topic on it back 2014 or something. So anything I can do to avoid NFT I would.

 

I've seen the pics mate, its defo an option. I have considered all angles, including making my own like you have.

 

To give you som idea, my low point in the loft is 90cm high, this angles up to 180cm high.

 

 

 

So in short, by the time I have my CMH in there I'll be left with myabe 120cm of space at the very most.

 

I really have got to squeeze every cm out of whatever I do choose. Also the system will have to support a SCROG as its a no brainer thats going to have to be used up there to help with canopy and height. And again NFT is a case of drop in cube and fill tank.

 

Also in the picture, the little black bit in the middle, thats a joist that rund through the entire center of the loft OVER the main joists. So Its got to stay. So rather than having a floor space of 3m x 2.6m what I actually have is TWO areas of 1.5m x 2.6m as that joist splits it in two. This also fucks me for most of the RDWC systems even if I did have the height as that joist is a 6" x 2" lump of timber so I'd have to have two sytems running.

 

Those big NFT 901's are almost perfect, they're 2.2m long and about 0.6m wide, they will sit either side of that joist. And TBH, I fucking hate that I really do.

[GreenVision]

@GSZZ Hi mate.

 

I'll defo try cutting out something for the cube tops if I go that way. Looked at the prices last night. No way Im parting with that sort of money for a few caps when a piece of correx will work just as well for a few pence.

 

I've looked into the Silver Bullet, been some time since I've used anything of the likes but it lookes like it is indeed the go to these days so its on the list.

 

My thinking with the chiller into the tray was the control of temps. When I used NFT before that gap between the correx and the film was a nightmare. I couldn't keep it cool and it was a whole grow battle with keeping the roots healthy, think I was using Liquid Oxygen back then, tried mylar on top to cover the black etc, was a nightmare. I had one of those themometers with a probe in each tray, even though the water was cool enough that area was always 23C minimum at lights on. So I was thinking if the chiller was set to 18C and pushed straight into the tray it might keep the entire area cool? Or a least cooler.

 

But until its built and I get a feel for the temps the CMH give off up there its hypothetical either way.

 

Also mate, have you ever seen the Amazon Aeroponic systems up and running? I realy like the idea behind them but they seem a bit But they do have a low profile similar to the NFT's and they're not too expensive either.

 

 

 

Edited July 5, 2023 by GreenVision

[stu914]

58 minutes ago, GreenVision said:

NFT 901's are almost perfect,

 

I'd be seriously considering these, easily modded to take out the root heat problem, no chiller needed,

no waiting for a rootball, virtually no maintenance apart from res top up and change, if using advanced nutes no ph to adjust,

the list goes on...can't think of an automated system using less height than these...

Hey ho, where there's a will and all that, you'll get there bud...

 

[HazyHashMan]

@GreenVision I have 2 x gt901s myself, they’re great bit of kit but you’ll need to drill a couple extra holes to secure the top tray in place, it comes with a nut and bolt in the middle to secure the top but only in the middle. I had a grow or two get Pythium because the top tray sagged from the weight but after a secured some extra fixings I’ve had no issues since. 
 

I used to grow in the small gt205s and never even used silver bullet in those days and never had a problem in 5 years of continuous use with this little units but the big boys needs a little modification to get it fool proof 

[GreenVision]

@stu914  

 

Here's that truss / joist.

 

 

 

 

I know the pic is hard to vision whats going on, but that board the clonex etc is on will be floor level, and that 6x2 inch timber runs straight through the fucking loft across the joists, basiclly splitting my floor area in two. So the floor joists run from front of house to back of house, that lump of timber runs from outside wall to neighbour over the top of the joists.

 

Had it have not been there I could've likely got a 2.4m loft tent up there, just about, but with it there I cant use a RDWC system as the header pot is usually central, but even had offset the header pot the water out and return pipework runs along the floor, so I cant get it in there. Had I've been able to run a DWC I'd have gone central to the floor space and filled a SCROG outwards, but with that there I have to have two systems, one either side of the timber and fill the net inwards towards the center of the net.

 

So I really do need something LOW, LONG and SKINNY either side. So yh those 901's really are looking like the perfect match as far as logistics go.

 

And before you ask yes....

 

I've gone through the ceiling TWICE.

 

One through the boys bedroom ceiling and one through the bathroom.

 

[GreenVision]

1 hour ago, HazyHashMan said:

some extra fixings I’ve had no issues since

 

Yh I had to do exactly the same mate. I used a few heavy duty spring clips, similar to what are on top of a clipboard, worked really well.

 

 

 

 

Many years back I did a topic on UK420 about the day they arrived. The chap just turned up at my door, no wrapping, no box, no shrinkwrap and just passed me the two res of a pair of 901's.

 

Was gobsmaked. And they came from a hydro shop brand new.

 

They gave me some twaddle about them ordering from supplier so they wasn't there to box them, said sorry but I wasn't happy.

 

But yh, grew two grows with them before I moved. Was a bit of a battle but got a good crop. I remember really liking the fact the was nothing to get rid of, no soil or coco or pebbles etc. Just a few cubes and roots in the wheelie bin nice and easy.

[stu914]

@GreenVision

 

OK, all you need to do is replace the rockwool blocks (or whatever you use) with 100mm mesh pots (wilma ones are perfect)

Run some feed lines to each plant site, 2 feed spouts per pot, hook up to a pump and timer, top plate to keep light out.

 

 

These shouldn't reach higher than the edges of the table, much the same as the NFT blocks.

As you control feed frequency and roots aren't permenantly submerged, chances of root rot are virtually removed

and plants can go into the system the second a tap root appears.

All that's left after cropping is roots and a handful of pebbles, easily recycled.

[GreenVision]

@stu914  So do you let the nets just sit on the tray underneath or are they suspended from the top cover???

 

[stu914]

Just now, GreenVision said:

@stu914  So do you let the nets just sit on the tray underneath or are they suspended from the top cover???

 

Mine are suspended but they can just as easily rest on the table itself, no need for spreader mat either.

[sweettooth]

@GreenVision have you thought about vertical growing as you have limited height?