brock1 Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 (edited) So here is the thing I find myself wanting to understand more on currently. Obviously I have encountered, treated & to some extent prevented over the year's bug infestation causing damage to my plant's which are a absolute might mare for the plants. They are literally eating alive after all. For me the biggest problem bugs cause is the spread of plants viruses which end up in clone stocks and breed into lines. This seems to becoming a big problem in the US clone market. Back to the big question after reading time & time again people saying they introduce bugs to test for resistance as a good practice in breeding. I once agreed with this but over the year's I now disagree & find it a pretty pointless practice or even bad & here is why it dosent work in my own. If I put for example spider mite into a grow room to see how resistant this strain will be here is what will happen. Every plant will get eaten by spider mite and get a nice web covering. No exception or resistant plants. yes it might start on one plant and spread from that but every plant will get eaten because none are resistant to the bug's. Now you have a spider mite farm instead of a grow and obviously some escape thats how viruses escape to other plants increase a big problem through extraction until you treat the plants & kill the bugs. point being in 24yr I have never found a plant resistant to bug's on any magical genetic level. Less appealing yes but not resistant to attacks meaning if the bigs their then your plants is getting eat. So every plant once a big is present needs treatment to stop the bugs. So the only real way to deal with bugs is by treatment after infestation or Preventative measures. For companion plant's was traditionally used. Things like nasturtiums to attract butterflys to them instead of your plant's. Poached egg plant to deter bugs. Things like marigold tea sprayed on your plant's. I think you get the idea So am I wrong & missing something or is their no such thing as cannabis having a genetic resistant to bugs? I mean their is genetic data that links 2 genes to mould resistant but none for bug resistant. Edited June 3, 2023 by brock1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Military Grade Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 It wouldn't surprise me if they got bugs in there breeding room and see one of there lines the bugs didn't go and decided to go with it must be bug resistant rather than introducing them Intentionally. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brock1 Posted June 3, 2023 Author Share Posted June 3, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Military Grade said: It wouldn't surprise me if they got bugs in there breeding room and see one of there lines the bugs didn't go and decided to go with it must be bug resistant rather than introducing them Intentionally. It crazy & only recently done thing. Bug resistance was normally tested with small samples with most plants. If bugs eat the fresh sample it not resistant. No need to turn a grow room into bug's holiday breeding ground in the name of better breeding practices. Were not growing bug were meant to be growing cannabis. I have never seen a resistant cannabis plant before someone say they had this plant bugs loved. Yes they are attracted to certain terpins more. But! no lets make it a BIG BUT! if that plant wasn't their would the bugs not attack the others because their resistant to bug attacks? I think not. They would still eat like a fat kid in a doughnut shop. Edited June 3, 2023 by brock1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Military Grade Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 Yeah seems a bit fishy I can get my head around some strains being better at coping with mold at highier humidity due to where in the world the genetics may have come from, But the bug thing don't seem as clear cut. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheechChongReturns Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 I think they're bending the truth for sales purposes. Like say a plant finishes despite having mites, they say its resistant coz it didn't kill it. But it did effect it and its growth and yield , however didn't kill it , so it has resistance 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brock1 Posted June 3, 2023 Author Share Posted June 3, 2023 Just now, Military Grade said: Yeah seems a bit fishy I can get my head around some strains being better at coping with mold at highier humidity due to where in the world the genetics may have come from, But the bug thing don't seem as clear cut. 100% theirs genes within the cannabis genome that do help if a plant comes into contact with a mould. Its totally understandable that you can breed for them to be expressed in individual phenos through selection. Bug resistant genes don't exist in the cannabis genetics from any information i have came across to date. So in God's name can you sellect for it in phenos to create resistant lines. I have stayed stum about this for a while before a lot reputable people in the cannabis industry say their breeding pest resistance into their strains but its starting to make me cringe a little everytime I read it or hear it on a podcast ect. Its quite funny to see i experts like someone shoved a sour sweet in my mouth because I physically twice when I hear nonsense spoken as fact 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brock1 Posted June 3, 2023 Author Share Posted June 3, 2023 4 minutes ago, CheechChongReturns said: I think they're bending the truth for sales purposes. Like say a plant finishes despite having mites, they say its resistant coz it didn't kill it. But it did effect it and its growth and yield , however didn't kill it , so it has resistance give the bugs time or a initial large starting population & that same plant is still dead. No resistance at all. In a real life situation the plant at the other end of the room that the mites did kill isn't always going to be their as the sacrificial lamb. Instead its the resistant plant that the sacrificial lamb 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hashslag Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 Unless the plant somehow contains an additive that the bugs find unpleasant, I cannot see how this could be the case at all. Bugs gonna eat whatever they come into contact with, aren't they? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brock1 Posted June 3, 2023 Author Share Posted June 3, 2023 Just now, Hashslag said: Unless the plant somehow contains an additive that the bugs find unpleasant, I cannot see how this could be the case at all. Bugs gonna eat whatever they come into contact with, aren't they? Only way I see it possible to do would be GM Techniques that would cost a small fortune because of the man hours & equipment involved. For a single person if they started at 16yr old they could probably achieve it in their 40's if it was a full time job. It would need a large team of geneticists imoa. Then you have laws not many countries take well to this. Infact its got worse punishment than walking the street with a gun or even killing a person in the UK for example so I don't see it happening anytime soon. See why its makes me cringe when so called breeder's haven't ever research the thing their breeding for but claim to be professionals in their field 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catweazle1 Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 I associaate bug resistance with toughness of the cell walls. Maybe how well they assimilate and use silica is a factor? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blerie420 Posted June 4, 2023 Share Posted June 4, 2023 This is a rabbit hole and a half. One I've spent God knows how long down watching videos, reading books and talking to anyone who will listen, which isn't many people in person If the plant is attractive to the bug, it's not resistant. End of discussion. Any success is purely down to fate. If there were a way for any commercial crop to be immune to pestilence, there would be a foundation for us to build an idea upon. But there isn't. It's prevention rather than cure and always will be I think 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brock1 Posted June 4, 2023 Author Share Posted June 4, 2023 9 hours ago, catweazle1 said: I associaate bug resistance with toughness of the cell walls. Maybe how well they assimilate and use silica is a factor? Very interesting & a worm hole i dived into a while ago. I even tried adding silica and sulfate to plant & it didn't. The result was that the plants i feed extra actually got more big damage which surprised the crap out of me at the time. Even more so because the extra silica was meant to help with PM but they were first to get it because of the insect damage. However that is a great response you give 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brock1 Posted June 4, 2023 Author Share Posted June 4, 2023 2 hours ago, blerie420 said: This is a rabbit hole and a half. One I've spent God knows how long down watching videos, reading books and talking to anyone who will listen, which isn't many people in person If the plant is attractive to the bug, it's not resistant. End of discussion. Any success is purely down to fate. If there were a way for any commercial crop to be immune to pestilence, there would be a foundation for us to build an idea upon. But there isn't. It's prevention rather than cure and always will be I think Yes that my understanding. A resistant plant would be like a marigold or poached egg plant. Zero pest damage like if you put a same from them in to feed bugs they would not feed on it. Yes under a microscope you might find a single bite hole here and their were they might of tried out of hunger. It wouldn't show signs of feeding though which would imply exactly what we both agree on here. Adding but to stress test is just counter productive in anything other than helping to risk spread disease. I suppose that why I feel the need to create this thread to eliminate they myth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crow River Posted June 4, 2023 Share Posted June 4, 2023 (edited) I always thought that plants and fungi that created psychoactive reactions in humans were to some extent resistant to being munched. Those substances that create effects in our brains are designed to poison insects, mites and so on. In most plants it's some sort of alkaloid, some of which are deadly poison to humans too. In cannabis it's the cannabinoids that do this job, no? Just not poisonous to humans, though it makes us behave differently... E2A:- It seems CBGA and THCA are toxic to insects, which is what I thought. So all cannabis is pest resistant to some extent. Quote Cannabis has been used as a pest repellent and pesticide in a variety of formulations. It has been planted as a companion crop to deter insects, nematodes, fungi, and weedy plants. Dried leaves and flowers have repelled or killed insects, mites, nematodes, and weeds. Plant extracts (either aqueous or polar organic solvent extracts) have killed or repelled insects, mites, nematodes, fungi, weedy plants, bacteria, and protozoans. Pure cannabinoids reportedly inhibit or kill bacteria, fungi, and insects. The validity of some of these reports is debated. Most of the scientific literature describes in vitro experiments, few studies concern field work. Utilizing left-over Cannabis leaves against pests appears to be a possible use for this harvest residue. From: https://druglibrary.net/olsen/HEMP/IHA/jiha4210.html Edited June 4, 2023 by Crow River 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSZZ Posted June 4, 2023 Share Posted June 4, 2023 Just now, Crow River said: In cannabis it's the cannabinoids that do this job, no? There are lots of theories as to why cannabis produces the cannabinoid rich resin that it does, but the reality is no one knows. Bug resistance, water retention, heat dissipation, insulation, and UV protectant are just some of the suggested reasons. People tend to pick whichever one suits best what they're trying to prove/sell 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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