Notorious B.U.D Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 I have been using Growers Ark coco nutes for a few years now but I’m thinking of maybe changing to a different brand and so I’m currently using up the last of what I have left but I have already run out of the extra traces and was just wondering if this is really that essential to use of will it be fine just using the A&B? I obviously could order some more and I’d only need a couple of litres which although it’s cheap they’ll still want £10 to deliver it which with me being a tight arse I’m not really willing to pay so if I can save £20 that I don’t have to spend I will Oh and the reason for wanting to change brands isn’t that there’s anything wrong with G.A nutes as I’ve had great results but I don’t like the humates they put in it as they always just settle out to the bottom of the tank and also I don’t really like having to faff around adding the Extra Traces either and so I just want it as clean and simple as possible. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddNut Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 I’ve used just a and b for a while now and not seen any decline in my plants health or end quality of flowers by not having the extra traces in the mix. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grower951 Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 I use 1ml-2ml/L grow/bloom and top it up with 3-4ml/L of traces, that's what they recommend, I might start just using 1ml/L of traces going forward because I don't really think it's necessary seeing as my background E.C is around 0.7 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysticriver Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 (edited) I didn't use to use [canna trace mix], the plants seemed fine now I use it & I do notice that the plants are stiffer; healthier, they are harder to bend - stronger stems? plus I remember having a lot more hollow stems without it the trace elements are needed for growth, but I did notice good results without using it you should be good mystic Edited January 23, 2023 by mysticriver 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysticriver Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, grower951 said: my background E.C is around 0.7 I would bet that ur background EC has the trace elements present [copper; boron etc] and on EC, 1ml/L canna traces equates to 0.05EC on the Richter scale (in my r/o water at least) mystic Edited January 23, 2023 by mysticriver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaMelter Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 @Notorious B.U.D I did use GA Extra traces on my first few grows - as directed so if I added 2 ml feed it was 3ml extra traces. My last bottle was pretty ropey looking with all gloopy bits in the bottom when I opened it - I used it once on one plant and the leaves went multicolored. That bottle went in the bin and since then I've not used any Extra Traces on this grow. I guess I won't know until harvest but the difference is minimal. Since I got my water test results back though and I've been adding Mono Calcium to balance I haven't had half the issues I had before so I bet that's probably the main thing I actually needed to fix and maybe the extra traces help if your water is lacking said traces. Save the $$$ and blow it on root tonic imho 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSZZ Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 (edited) trace minerals tie up the ratios between the nutrients, they can be the difference between mystery lock outs or a plain-sailing grow, and high levels of trace minerals positively impacts final burn quality to a huge degree. There about 100 years worth of data about growing tobacco for smoke quality - the tobacco used for high-end cigars that burn a pure uniform light grey are exclusive to soils/land that are full in trace minerals. Whilst not a 1:1 comparison on the whole, there is a lot to be learned. I will never not use a trace mix when growing cannabis, personally I thought the difference in end quality was pretty distinct... 7 hours ago, grower951 said: I don't really think it's necessary seeing as my background E.C is around 0.7 Your source waters mineral content will be mostly calcium and magnesium carbonate which will be giving you that reading, there will be lots of "traces" of things in your water but they will be mainly unusable to your plants, and what is useable will be either be in amounts that are useless or worse problematic (but you'd already know about that). tl;dr your water hasn't got a full suite of trace elements in it, a high background EC doesn't mean you shouldn't use a trace mineral mix. 22 minutes ago, DeltaMelter said: My last bottle was pretty ropey looking with all gloopy bits in the bottom when I opened it - I used it once on one plant and the leaves went multicolored. That bottle went in the bin and since then I've not used any Extra Traces on this grow. I guess I won't know until harvest but the difference is minimal. Since I got my water test results back though and I've been adding Mono Calcium to balance I haven't had half the issues I had before so I bet that's probably the main thing I actually needed to fix and maybe the extra traces help if your water is lacking said traces. As above, the majority peoples water does not contain a whole suite of trace minerals appropriate to grow plants, least not in the right ratios. Its a bit odd you had a bottle of extra traces that had gone a bit funny, freshly opened, even stranger that it caused your plants to go multi-coloured, and I say this because I've probably gone through a few hundred litres of extra traces up to this point in my life and I've never had a fresh bottle with bits in the bottom. I've had plenty of bottles go a deep orange and get the gloopy bits in the bottom, exclusively caused by cross contaminated liquid measuring equipment like syringes and measuring cups, but I solved this issue by having measuring equipment exclusive for that bottle, but it never once caused an issue with the plants or indicated that the product had turned toxic or harmful... I've readily poured upwards of 400ml+ with gloopy bits into the res What did growers ark have to say? 22 minutes ago, DeltaMelter said: Save the $$$ and blow it on root tonic imho Im all for saving money but its less than £20 for 5L of extra traces Edited January 23, 2023 by GSZZ 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BushDoctoR Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 Just now, GSZZ said: I will never not use a trace mix when growing cannabis, personally I thought the difference in end quality was pretty distinct... That's interesting to hear. I've been pondering for quite several time about using canna traces alongside my A+B (canna coco) as my background EC is high and feed strength is therefore very low throughout, even at the strongest I'm only using it at 3/8 strength which has led me to wonder if my plants are getting enough traces at that concentration. I'd considered a switch to GA but try to avoid online ordering as much as I can I was expecting traces to give a very slight health improvement but the fact you say you can actually notice the difference is very encouraging, I think I'll definitely be taking the plunge now I've read this 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaMelter Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 @GSZZ Tbh I never mentioned it to anyone and figured I just had an old bottle, I had been through about 5 bottles before that and they were all A-OK light straw colour and totally clear with no gloopy bits. I probably had a contaminated bottle - I just binned it. Haven't noticed a difference without it yet though so maybe I'll re-introduce it next grow - t'is cheap afterall. I was thinking it was more $$ than that - mixing it up with the root tonic price-wise. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysticriver Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 defo had hollow stems without it mystic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notorious B.U.D Posted January 24, 2023 Author Share Posted January 24, 2023 Thanks for the input everyone I forgot to mention that’s it’s mainly grow nutes I have left apart from about 300ml of Bloom so I wasn’t planning on doing a whole grow through flower without Extra Traces I just want to use up what I have left of the grow nutes during veg before switching to another brand which will probably be @Intense Nutrients to start with as I’ve still got my prize from COTC that I haven’t used any of apart from the Runzym or whatever it’s called Appreciate the detailed info from you @GSZZ I wasn’t aware of how the levels of trace minerals can affect the final smoke. A lot of companies don’t have bottles of traces in their range though so are you saying that they add high levels of trace nutrients to their base nutrients to compensate for this and that these levels could be too high depending on the strength of feed your using? 23 hours ago, DeltaMelter said: Save the $$$ and blow it on root tonic imho Still got a fair bit of H&G Roots Exelurator left mate, great stuff imo but bloody expensive. I guess I’ll just use it without the Extra Traces for now and if I notice any ill effects I’ll just get some ordered in. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSZZ Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 1 hour ago, Notorious B.U.D said: Appreciate the detailed info from you @GSZZ I wasn’t aware of how the levels of trace minerals can affect the final smoke. A lot of companies don’t have bottles of traces in their range though so are you saying that they add high levels of trace nutrients to their base nutrients to compensate for this and that these levels could be too high depending on the strength of feed your using? On the contrary dude, the full suite of trace elements that are displayed on the bottles are only available in those concentrations when the feed is used at full strength as directed on the bottle, and I don't suspect many people worth the salt in the bottles are going in full bore with the base nutrients. When you actually work out whats present in regards to trace minerals when you use your base feed diluted they might as well not be there. As far as I am aware there is only Canna and Growers Ark who offer a trace mineral product, but the issue arises there that they're tailored to the base nutrient of the respective brand (they're not fully in ratio, trace mineral salts come as a whole package to manufacturers) as are the instructions of use. Like anything you can overdo it, when I asked Martin at Growers Ark about this a long time ago he told me some story about Innuits who only ate seal fat and overdosed on micronutrients, or something. I can't quite remember now Anyway I suppose what I'm getting at is its not as cut and dry as just grabbing the Canna or Growers ark product and banging it in at what it says on the bottle to your existing mix as you might end up overdoing it, depending on the range but I couldn't give you specifics. You would just have to start on a reduced dose and work your way up - I couldn't tell you what a trace element over application looks like though I don't think I've ever seen one 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaijin Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 Glad I read this thread. Thank you Gents 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notorious B.U.D Posted January 25, 2023 Author Share Posted January 25, 2023 17 hours ago, GSZZ said: when I asked Martin at Growers Ark about this a long time ago he told me some story about Innuits who only ate seal fat and overdosed on micronutrients, or something. I can't quite remember now You were smoking on some good strong shit that day I gather… So basically what your saying is I’m better off sticking with G.A Nutrients and their Extra Traces if I want to be on the safe side and even better I could have them tailor my nutes to my water and leave out the Humates 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobcharlieeeee Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 This thread just reminded me i have run out for my next grow, 5l on order Loving growers ark products but i do seem to go through there nutes quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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