Is this root rot

[GSZZ]

3 hours ago, and_121 said:

That’s how I have everything set up mate and how the plant look this was a day or two ago they look a bit better today as the big fan leaves are more up and straight and there has been more growth 

 

Just an observation... it might be worth putting the air pumps or some of them, outside of the grow area so its no drawing in the warm grow room air into the res or not as much... unless you're using a chiller and i've missed that bit ! 

[badbillybob]

personally id bin them. ive never properly saved a plant with root rot, and altho you possibly could get it to a point of flowering them out, you would probably be as well starting over..

Like said, move airpumps off the top of the tote, also get some reflective material for the tote, as the rot has come from too high res temps.

id bleach everything down, change out the hydroton and bleach airlines etc before starting again. 

 

good luck

[DreamCatcher]

Have you looked into Beneficial additives for hydro? Liquid Orca seems okay, Great White powder (same company makes both) also is alright but has a carrier sediment which you probably dont want.
Liquid orca was designed specifically for Hydroponics. I add miniscule amounts (3.5ml for 30L) with very good results. Below is a picture of one of the transplants o did in my current run. Keep in mind that if you are using liquid oxygen or sterilising agents the bacteria will not work.
Use sterilising agents for prevention and Bacteria for treatment. Once you start using bacteria it is advised to skip the sterilising agents as you will kill all the goodness that you are adding.



Root rot is mainly caused by an Anaerobic environment (not aired enough). Higher temperature waters hold less oxygen, so the advice to lower the temps if you haven't already (acceptable range is between 17-20c) is spot on. You can cycle a 1.5L frozen bottle of water one in the tank one in the freezer, swap them when the temps go out of range. 
With root rot you will probably find your pH is out of range too, keeping a close eye on that and you'll be able to foresee potential issues. The airstone might also be an issue, you've got 4 plants in that oxypot and i am assuming you are using the pump and stones that came with it(?) if that is the case then your pump or stones might not be up to the task of aerating that body of water, hence why the rot managed to settle. 

I attempted a DWC for the first time at the end of this summer and it didnt work out, mainly because i used the wrong additives for hydro that started growing cyanobacteria in the res, that bacteria would then subsequently use up all the oxygen and my seedling would've developed root rot had i not done the changes that i did (see above picture, used inert hydroponic media "Grodan Rockwool croutons" instead). 

Edited December 26, 2022 by DreamCatcher

[zen-ken]

Grant took the site down @DreamCatcher and it aint coming back ...

 

You have serious infection of bacteria @and_121 and I fair wager temperature and/or something organic in your feed will be the culprit.

 

I have seen people drag them back from here....But Im with @badbillybob here.

 

 

 

[and_121]

I had them in an rdwc to begin with but didn’t have any air stones in the res which might have contributed to the problem and only had about 3 litres of air a minute pumping in each pot it was a 4 pot system since getting the oxypot 4 a few days ago I’ve added two more air pumps and they say they pump 380 litres of air an hour I have 8 air stones in there now which should work out to about 25 litres a minute now I think all in the same oxypot 4 tank I was using shogun katana roots and there zenzym with some b-52 and evoponics steroids is that just too much crap in there and over complicating things? Another thing is that might not be helping it is I think I have slight light leaks in the tank as there’s little gaps where the net pots are not quite full to the top I’ve been and got some reflective sheet today and I’m going to try cut that so it covers the whole res and hopefully keeps it colder from the temps in the tent and probably drop my temps in my res as when I’ve seen it it’s only been at 20 tops with lights on but may have gone over at some point when I haven’t seen it but I’ll try aiming for like 18 and also move my air pumps out of the tent 

thanks everyone for the help/advice and reply’s much appreciated 

[DreamCatcher]

35 minutes ago, and_121 said:

just too much crap in there

Root stimulants usually contain organic matter, which most of the times is raw materials that need to go through a process of breaking down in the media by microbes. Then, whatever the microbes "poo out" essentially, is absorbed by the plant, after it is dissolved in the water when the media gets moisturised. In a hydroponic setting, where these ingredients just float in a massive body of water, they begin fermenting, releasing heat (on a smaller level) and food for bad bacteria in the tank which then begin the oxygen competition with your plant, eventually ending in none for the plant to absorb, which then causes rot pathogens to settle. 
Organic materials accompanied by organic acids (citric acid for example) speed up the process as the acids eat away at the raw material, releasing carbon into the water which then feeds the bad stuff.

Try to replace anything organic with mineral instead. In my case, i used FOUNDATION root stimulant from Intense Nutrients and their pH down which was part citric acid part methane-sulphonic acid. When one touched the other, i would get explosive bacterial growth all the way up my airlines, air stone, water-line, anywhere it would splash would begin growing shit. The same applies to Enzymes. I replaced those products with Liquid Orca.

Cyanobacteria feeds on oxygen and carbon. Looks like brown sediment, sometimes sludge, comes first and suffocates plants. After the plant starts struggling for oxygen, pythium settles. 

Edited December 26, 2022 by DreamCatcher

[badbillybob]

i would go back to basics, dont use anything with organic matter in it, im a fan of ionic grow, bloom silicone and canna cal mag. thats is all you need,

Root stims are generally seaweed based etc and best avoided in rdwc, and beneficials never end well in recirculating systems in my experience.

[and_121]

Right don’t know if I’ve basically tried to polish a turd but I’ve cleaned every single thing today the system the airlines the stones everything, also what I did was wash the roots is loop warm water with a little silver bullet to try get the stuff off as to see how it looked before cutting them off they came up good as my thought was maybe it was the b 52 and it was staining them a little as it only started when I started using that it was building up mainly where the water meets the root could be totally wrong like I say but I think they come up pretty good a lot whiter and none of them where actually bad after a light wash it come away easy and even some of the root that where floating around in the container where white none of them stayed crappy but like I say could be completely wrong I treated the water I put back in the res for a plant with infection as well and just added grow a and b, also took the air pumps out of the tent and covered the res with reflective stuff also stopping the light creeeping in to the res around the net pots and turned the temps down a little hopefully to hit 17-18 instead of being around the 20 mark 

[zen-ken]

It's the B52 that does it bro....I would introduce more top watering as well to promote lateral rooting.

 

Keep the water around 20C (18-21C)

 

 

Give this a read. NOTE: I do not use or promote these products in anyway!! 

They probably work a treat....I include the following as its really good info and we are not allowed to give links to product websites

(it stops people turning the site into a big advert and not paying there dues)

 

 

Hydroponic Root Root

Preventing & Managing Hydroponic Root Pathogens

Hydroponic root rot is an avoidable and treatable crop disease. Note that browning and decaying roots are more of a symptom and not a particular plant disease, identifiable as brown mushy roots. Hydroponic root rot results when a disease causing organism (pythium, fusarium, etc) is introduced or is present and conditions prevail that favor the growth and development of the organism in the crop’s root zone. In crop management terms, this is referred to as the Crop Disease Triangle, ie three factors create the situation:

 

1. Host (plant, roots)
2. Pathogen/Vector (disease causing organism)
3. Favorable Conditions (warm temperatures, anaerobic)

From the above, all three sides need to occur for the disease triangle to occur, leading us to the best root rot control measure, which is prevention.

Above: these roots are displaying severe symptoms of hydroponic root rot

 

Above: Healthy root system

 

Preventing Hydroponic Root Rot

 

Following Current Culture H2O’s protocol for high pressure aeroponics, deep water culture and recirculating deep water culture systems will all but eliminate the chance of crops exhibiting hydroponic root rot. Proven production practices combined with well designed, refined and built hydroponic systems provide repeatable results.  Additionally, the fundamentals and practices are entirely scalable, whether Residential, Professional or Commercially cultivating water culture crops.

Above: This water supply is likely to encourage pathogens for hydroponic crops.

 

However, this is information all types of water culture growers may benefit from, so let’s have a brief discussion on some of the areas that need to be managed and why to prevent hydroponic root rot from occurring.

 

1. Eliminate organic matter – Whether introduced in a transplant medium, water source or by using nutrient additives not appropriate for the system type, it is imperative to maintain a “zero tolerance” for organic matter in the system. Additions of organic matter, however small, should be regarded as contaminants in well run hydroponic systems.  Examples of ingredients may include carbohydrates, enzymes, vitamins, beneficial microbes, etc. This is typically a grower’s number one source for introducing the Pathogen/Vector side of the Crop Disease Triangle.

 

TIP: ORP Management helps reduce or eliminate scale and microbial activity in the root zone

 

2. Clean, filtered water only – As mentioned above, raw source water may contain plant disease causing microorganisms or other vectors/substances that can contribute to symptoms of hydroponic root rot. Reverse Osmosis water is preferred for both crop performance and maintaining a healthy, clean nutrient solution. Consult CCH2O SOPs for recommend water handling and storage outside of the hydroponic system.

 

3. High purity hydroponic grade fertilizers only – Besides ensuring that no organic matter is present in your nutrients, the chemical composition and balance of nutrient ions present in hydroponic solutions counts big. Some sources, like urea or ammonium can cause swings in pH and nutrient availability, creating stresses on crops that leave them more vulnerable to hydroponic root rot. Cultured Solutions nutrients and additives are an excellent example of modern formulations intended for hydroponic use.

 

4. Maintain optimal root temperatures – In a warm grow room, some growers may find it challenging to maintain 68 to 70 deg F temperatures in the root zone.  As the solution gets warmer or cooler than optimal, conditions begin to favor pathogens more than root health.  Growers may find this important pillar to crop health a challenge, however, with a high quality Hydroponic Chiller, maintaining optimal root temperatures in hydroponics is made easy and consistent.

 

5. Maintain consistent aeration and dissolved oxygen levels in the hydroponic nutrient solution.  Hydroponic root rot thrives in low oxygen and stagnant conditions.  Keeping the nutrient solution well aerated and circulated maintains conditions favorable to healthy roots and strong nutrient uptake by crops.

6. Root zone IPM – mycostop, HOCl (UC Roots / Clear Line)

 

Identifying Hydroponic Root Rot

 

Healthy hydroponic roots typically range from white to light tan and appear firm–think pasta noodles done “al dente”.  Some crop types and nutrient solutions will maintain healthy roots that may not appear 100% white.  However, if following CCH2O protocol you can expect firm, white fuzzy roots that show little or no signs of discoloration; the calling card of maximum water and nutrient absorption potential.

 

Above: a hydroponic root system at the onset of root disease.

 

If roots appear brown, are covered in bio film or are soft and mushy, it is likely that they have an advanced onset of hydroponic root rot. Above the root zone, yellowing leaves, weak limbs and slow crop development are an indicator that trouble may be lurking down below in the root zone.

If Pathogens Pressures are Present:

 

• Reduce lighting to 75% during pathogen pressures
• Drain system volume, refill with nutrient at 50% strength
• Maintain recommended dosage of Hypochlorous Acid with target ORP @ 300-350mV
• Inoculate solution with Mycostop Biofungicide, following CCH2O defined SOP
• Drain system weekly @ 50-75% and refresh with 50% strength solution

*this will help expel excessive exudate and microbial mass

 

Once plant health improves:

 

• Increase lighting back to 90-100%
• Increase nute strength to 85-90% recommended strength
• Maintain recommended dosage of Hypochlorous Acid with target ORP @ 300-350mV
• Continue using Mycostop on Bi’Weekly basis as outlined in CCH2O SOP
• Reduce frequency of drain out, allowing solution health to stabilize

 

Credit:CCH2O

 

[and_121]

So do you think my roots look ok now and my problem was steamed from using b52 in my system and it’s possibly not root rot I was a bit worried about cutting them that’s why I thought I’d try clean them first just to see how easy it come off and what it left the roots like, like I say I could be wrong but thought I’d see but definitely look in to top watering them as well mate to help the root growth would a small pump in the res dripping on to the help with this? 
 

thanks for help everyone 

[zen-ken]

You don't want a constant drip tbf ime....Just a good top watering every four or six hours. (you could set up a timer for it...if access is a problem)

 

How high is the water level ?

 

 

They may look at little droopy at first....but it wont be long before they look like this

 

 

 

 

The roots in my system have long since filled the entire tote and most of the six inch pipe...I started the water level at the net pots....I then drop it to roughly 2inches below the net pot. (auto top up on a float valve)

 

The clean up has done wonders tbf and I think you could salvage it from here....But I wouldn't want just a few 'straws' (roots) supping up that feed and the root mass hanging like that from a few points.

 

The above is just A+B and a little silicon. (inoculated with Tribus and I use hypochlorous acid to maintain ORP)

 

 

(sorry I didn't give you this help earlier....I over did the food xmas eve.....Its taken me till now to recover  )

 

 

[and_121]

Cheers mate ye Access is a bit of a problem tbf but if I put it on a timer like you say I should be ok then? This is first time in dwc did coco first and the results where a lot better than I thought I was going to get but really wanted to try dwc just seemed more interesting, I first started at the net pot but as soon as I seen roots dangling I dropped pretty quick because I didn’t know how long to leave them for because I read you should have a gap so they can get air I probably have it abut 2-3 inches below now since doing the water change yesterday and only put grow a+b in there with some silver bullet also added another air pump should be creating about 30 litres of air a min in about 80 litres of water so I’m hoping that should be sufficient, they look down in the picture I posted yesterday but they looked fine before I got them out and placed them to the side for cleaning the leaves where nice and flat and not dropping, no worries mate I know it would be a busy time with Christmas but that’s for the help and advice and saying them look better gives me a bit more hope I did the right thing

[zen-ken]

19 minutes ago, and_121 said:

 I probably have it abut 2-3 inches below now since doing the water change yesterday and only put grow a+b in there with some silver bullet also added another air pump should be creating about 30 litres of air a min in about 80 litres of water so I’m hoping that should be sufficient, they look down in the picture I posted yesterday but they looked fine before I got them out and placed them to the side for 

 I would bring the level back up tbh....until they establish the lateral rooting 

 

I think the accepted level of air/water ratio is 4:1(ltrs per minute vs water volume).....it's on their site somewhere....I'll try to find it for you.

 

However

 

It's not the air pump that is the restricting factor ime....the airstones don't allow enough air to get through them...Unfortunately, the Japanese/korean stones are like fucking hens teeth and don't get the new 'grey' versions from koi shops - the fucking things disintegrated in the tote 

 

 

[zen-ken]

 

Current Culture H2O General Recommendations

Environmental Considerations: For best results, all aspects of the grow space should be optimized including: day and night temperatures, humidity, light levels, CO2 and air movement. Refer to the CCH2O General Recommendations chart above for specific environmental parameters.

Nutrient Solution Temperature: Maintain nutrient solution temperatures between 66° – 72°. This will allow for the highest levels of dissolved oxygen, discourage proliferation of harmful bacteria and ensure explosive root growth.

Top-Off Reservoir: Use a top-off reservoir to maintain consistent water levels in your hydroponic system. The top-off can be used for nutrient/pH steering or rapid nutrient change outs.

Adjusting pH & EC/ppm: Use one of the following methods for pH and EC/ppm adjustments. Stay within our recommended pH and EC/ppm ranges for each week of veg and bloom.

Method 1 – Top-Off Reservoir: Using a top-off reservoir makes it easy to follow weekly feeding schedules. The top-off reservoir should have a similar nutrient concentration than what’s in your hydroponic system or the following weeks nutrient schedule. For best results pH and EC/ppm adjustments should be done through the top-off reservoir.

Method 2 – Nutrient Doser: When implementing nutrient dosing or fertigation equipment be sure to consult your equipment manufacturer for the proper concentration ratios.

Method 3 – Add-Back: Adding concentrated pH adjusters or nutrients directly to your hydroponic system may result in extreme plant/root shock. Dilute desired add-back concentrates into a volume of water before slowly adding into your hydroponic system. Use the CCH2O Add-Back Kit to easily introduce add-backs to your hydroponic system. For more information on this method reach out to tech@cch2o.com

*UC ROOTS can be added directly to your hydroponic system at recommended rates, it has no negative impact on plants/roots.

Nutrient Change Outs: Full nutrient change outs are beneficial every 14-21 days. If pH levels become unstable or nutrient levels start to rise this may be a good indication to do a full or partial nutrient change out. When feeding aggressively, nutrient change outs every 7-10 days may be necessary.

CAUTION: Adding organics, sugars, bacteria, and enzyme products have shown to promote biofilms which destabilize pH and require more frequent nutrient change outs.

 

Credit: CCH2O

[zen-ken]

Go to the website and have a read of the materiel there.....once you have that down try scienceinhydroponics for some really up to date info and hydrobuddy is just gold 

 

credit:CCH2O and Dr Fernandez