Hashinene?

[Translator]

Lately I have been really facinated about the terpene hashinene, which is for those of you that don't know the terpene that gives hash its unique smell and flavour. 

 

Hashinene as a flavour is known by many Europeans, but the terpene itself was not discovered until 2014, so little information exist on it. Most of my knowledge comes from Frenchy Cannoli's videos about hashmaking and a single science article about its discovery.

 

From my understanding, hashinene is created by the oxidation of beta-myrcene, with photo-oxidation being the most effective way. Most hashproducing countries do this by suncuring the plants and pressing the final product with heat.

 

In a home setting, the only step where oxidation occurs is in the heating and pressing.

 

My question is, is there a way to increase the hashinene content? The first thought that comes to mind would be leaving the trichomes to be exposed to the sun?

 

Thoughts?

[Shumroom]

What about just a UV lamp? 

 

Atb 

 

 

[Hashslag]

5 hours ago, Shumroom said:

What about just a UV lamp? 

 

Atb 

 

 

 

Maybe it could be a combination of warmth, UVA/UVB and other factors such as humidity? Worth a shot I suppose, but I wonder if just a UV lamp on its own would produce the same effect.

[Inspiration101]

I would be looking at the COB method I was reading here in another thread.  

 

Heat and time is your friend I think

[MidgeSmith]

I know this is probably pretty far from what you actually want to hear or do (the natural route) but just in case... you can buy terpenes and spray them onto the buds.

 

I recently added a girl scout cookies terpene profile to some of my buds that I had accidentally ruined in the last stages of drying and which had little flavour.  It worked and the flavour and smell and I feel (though I could be imagining it) the entourage effect is now a lot better

There's a company here that sells organically derived terpenes and is selling the terpene hasinene which  you could simply put in an atomiser and spray your buds with / add to extracts to improve the hashiness. The one below is 70% pure hashinene 30% myrcene.



I paid ~£12 for 1ml of the girl scout cookie profile, but hashinene 'isolate' is a little more expensive.  Saying that, a little goes a very, very, very long way and as you will see by the safety information, raw terpenes have very powerful effects, so it is worth wearing specs and gloves and maybe a mask (a covid masks will possibly do)  .  They'd prefer you wore powered body armour but hey.

Anyway, just an oblique addition in case it is of interest.  I totally get it if you feel this would be Frankenweed, not the naturally created thing you wanted, but for me, it is a possibility.

[mysticriver]

Just now, MidgeSmith said:

simply put in an atomiser

what atomiser do u use/would I need

 

 

mystic

[MidgeSmith]

Well, I bought these as it was as cheap to have loads as it would be to buy one decent glass one - also because I only bought 1ml and I wanted to be sure that I didn't get a large spray which would waste most of it.

 

 

YMMV but it did fine for me, despite being fiddly Depending on what you buy, you might need a tiny funnel to get it into the spray bottle, though the tiny phial mine came in, made it easy for me to just pour it into the spray bottle.

 

Midge

[Graywolf]

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0021967314016173

[Translator]

10 hours ago, Shumroom said:

What about just a UV lamp? 

 

Atb 

 

 

 

5 hours ago, Hashslag said:

 

Maybe it could be a combination of warmth, UVA/UVB and other factors such as humidity? Worth a shot I suppose, but I wonder if just a UV lamp on its own would produce the same effect.

 

This would be one of the first things to test, but how much light and for how long? I would assume a UV lamp would give results much quicker than sunlight, so how many days would say 2 months worth of suncuring convert into exposure to an UV lamp?

 

5 hours ago, Inspiration101 said:

I would be looking at the COB method I was reading here in another thread.  

 

Heat and time is your friend I think

 

COB method?

 

The problem with heat is that it's one of the most effective ways of converting THC into CBN, which to a sertain point is wanted, since other then hashinene I'm looking for a couchlock effect. But it is possible to go to far, even though I have never experienced it myself.

 

But from my understanding, and please correct me if I'm wrong, photo-oxidation is not an effective way of converting THC into CBN. So the sun or UV route is probably the way to go.

 

4 hours ago, MidgeSmith said:

I know this is probably pretty far from what you actually want to hear or do (the natural route) but just in case... you can buy terpenes and spray them onto the buds.

 

I recently added a girl scout cookies terpene profile to some of my buds that I had accidentally ruined in the last stages of drying and which had little flavour.  It worked and the flavour and smell and I feel (though I could be imagining it) the entourage effect is now a lot better

There's a company here that sells organically derived terpenes and is selling the terpene hasinene which  you could simply put in an atomiser and spray your buds with / add to extracts to improve the hashiness. The one below is 70% pure hashinene 30% myrcene.



I paid ~£12 for 1ml of the girl scout cookie profile, but hashinene 'isolate' is a little more expensive.  Saying that, a little goes a very, very, very long way and as you will see by the safety information, raw terpenes have very powerful effects, so it is worth wearing specs and gloves and maybe a mask (a covid masks will possibly do)  .  They'd prefer you wore powered body armour but hey.

Anyway, just an oblique addition in case it is of interest.  I totally get it if you feel this would be Frankenweed, not the naturally created thing you wanted, but for me, it is a possibility.

 

That actually looks really interesting, even though it's not the route I would like to go. Curious though, how are those manufactured? Hashinene is one of the rarest terpenes in existance, and I'm a bit unsure of this, but it seems hashinene does not exist naturally in nature, but is instead created from other natural things (beta-myrcene).

 

3 hours ago, Graywolf said:

 

 

Yeah, that's the only article in existance about hashinene. But it's only about its discovery, and don't go much into further details.

Edited July 15, 2022 by Translator

[inceywinceyspider]

I find that the older and more cured the trim material is the greater the similarity to traditional hash. 

[MidgeSmith]

" That actually looks really interesting, even though it's not the route I would like to go. Curious though, how are those manufactured? Hashishene is one of the rarest terpenes in existance, and I'm a bit unsure of this, but it seems Hashishene does not exist naturally in nature, but is instead created from other natural things (beta-myrcene). "

That's a very good question. Obvs most of the terpenes can be extracted via the usual methods. I would guess that they expose beta-myrcene to light.  I know that lager becomes skunky if exposed to light, which is why green bottles are no good for storing lager if you want to preserve its flavour (personally I like it skunky so I like lager in green bottles)! Presumably the light is acting on the myrcene and humulene from the hops and making it skunky.

I have no idea how you would speed the process up to avoid damaging the buds.  I'm not sure you could, which is why the extract route seemed like a best-bet-poor-cousin. Perhaps you just have to take the hit on the potency and leave the freshly harvested plants under the light, in a heap (like they traditionally do in countries of origin) and turn them over a couple of times a day to discourage mould while they dry? Or just hang them, but with the light on gently throughout...

I have had some very strong semi-fermented traditionally dried commercial weed that smelled like rum and hash, going back 20 years, so perhaps it is possible to amplify the flavour that way.  Alternatively they could have sprayed the plant with something to make it smell of rum and hash.

Best of luck with it though, do report back if you have any luck.

p.s. sorry mods if my posting of a link to a source of hashishene was against the rules, I didn't realise.  (the link has been snipped, so I am guessing terpenes-uk link was not allowed).

Edited July 15, 2022 by MidgeSmith
proper spelling of Hashishene

[Translator]

3 hours ago, inceywinceyspider said:

I find that the older and more cured the trim material is the greater the similarity to traditional hash. 

 

Yeah, my experience is similar. But I don't find the method very effective, you get better results from just making a temple ball and aging that instead. 

 

A lot is also happening once you make the temple ball and age that. The smell and flavour gets much more intense after two-three months, and just keeps getting better the longer you age it. Frenchy Cannoli also talks about this in his vidoes, and temple balls are strange in the sense that they "clean" themselfs. If you make a temple ball that is almost full melt, and you age that for three months, it will become full melt. Why? None knows! There is literally no information on this. But aging the temple balls are just as important as the pressing. Would be really interesting to know whats actually happening inside the balls during the aging process.

 

Americans don't seem to be interested in hashinene or these types of hash, and are more of the opinions that doing anything with the trichomes destoys the terpenes (which is true in a way). And from my understanding, they also don't know what proper hash tastes like and are more into live rosin/hash or more typical cannabis terpenes. The only person I have seen that lives across the Atlantic mentioning real hash is Urban Remo from Canada. In his YouTube videos where he reviews hash, he sometimes says "this reminds me of the 80s arcade", which just means hashinene. But other than that, it's rare to find someone talking about it.

 

3 hours ago, MidgeSmith said:

" That actually looks really interesting, even though it's not the route I would like to go. Curious though, how are those manufactured? Hashishene is one of the rarest terpenes in existance, and I'm a bit unsure of this, but it seems Hashishene does not exist naturally in nature, but is instead created from other natural things (beta-myrcene). "

That's a very good question. Obvs most of the terpenes can be extracted via the usual methods. I would guess that they expose beta-myrcene to light.  I know that lager becomes skunky if exposed to light, which is why green bottles are no good for storing lager if you want to preserve its flavour (personally I like it skunky so I like lager in green bottles)! Presumably the light is acting on the myrcene and humulene from the hops and making it skunky.

I have no idea how you would speed the process up to avoid damaging the buds.  I'm not sure you could, which is why the extract route seemed like a best-bet-poor-cousin. Perhaps you just have to take the hit on the potency and leave the freshly harvested plants under the light, in a heap (like they traditionally do in countries of origin) and turn them over a couple of times a day to discourage mould while they dry? Or just hang them, but with the light on gently throughout...

I have had some very strong semi-fermented traditionally dried commercial weed that smelled like rum and hash, going back 20 years, so perhaps it is possible to amplify the flavour that way.  Alternatively they could have sprayed the plant with something to make it smell of rum and hash.

Best of luck with it though, do report back if you have any luck.

p.s. sorry mods if my posting of a link to a source of hashishene was against the rules, I didn't realise.  (the link has been snipped, so I am guessing terpenes-uk link was not allowed).

 

It's not so much that I want to speed the process up, but increase it. Since in a home setting, suncuring is not used. And I believe thats the missing key for the most hash flavour possible.

 

I dry my plants whole upside down with only the fan leaves removed, drying them with lights indoors would be hard if not impossible since you need very high amounts of UV for a proper cure. And if you do not do it correctly, all you do is lock in the chlorophyll without actually breaking it down. It's similar with tobacco, the only places where suncuring is done is Africa and Turkey. The weather in the west is simply not harsh enough sun wise. Another problem with that method would be the lights, no grow light produce any significant amounts of UV. 

 

A simple method would be a glass jar with the unpressed trichomes and leaving that on a window stool that gets plenty of sun, and agitate the jar every few days to even out the exposure. Doing this for four-six weeks should improve it.

 

How should I perform this test? Leaving half to be exposed to the sun and other half in darkness, make two temple balls and compare the results in six months? 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 15, 2022 by Translator

[MidgeSmith]

Fair enough, I was thinking of artificial techniques, though as you say it'd definitely be cheaper and less problematic to just expose a jar to light while you keep the control jar in the dark.

 

I have a 60W LED UV strip that I use to augment the UV in my growlights.  If your proof of concept works and you wanted to refine the approach you could try a dark dry and cure but with a couple of strips of the right UV (A OR B OR C) on for part of each day perhaps. I guess there's a lot to test to recreate the sunlight in the drying tent as you say and it might not be necessary, but perhaps with certain wavelengths the terpenes would be transmuted without degrading the THC considerably.

 

By speeding up, I meant to try to increase the conversion to hashishene without decreasing potency. Hurry it up to avoid degradation, that was all.

 

I look forward to hearing more about this for sure. I smoked hashish from Afghanistan, Lebanon, Morocco, India and Nepal for years before I tried flowers of any sort and the smell still puts a smile on my face.  If you find a way, I'll no doubt be giving it a go myself

Your test method seems sound, though if it occurs in hash through the rubbing and casual curing process, perhaps it wouldn't take as long as you anticipate?

Edited July 15, 2022 by MidgeSmith

[Translator]

54 minutes ago, MidgeSmith said:

Fair enough, I was thinking of artificial techniques, though as you say it'd definitely be cheaper and less problematic to just expose a jar to light while you keep the control jar in the dark.

 

I have a 60W LED UV strip that I use to augment the UV in my growlights.  If your proof of concept works and you wanted to refine the approach you could try a dark dry and cure but with a couple of strips of the right UV (A OR B OR C) on for part of each day perhaps. I guess there's a lot to test to recreate the sunlight in the drying tent as you say and it might not be necessary, but perhaps with certain wavelengths the terpenes would be transmuted without degrading the THC considerably.

 

By speeding up, I meant to try to increase the conversion to hashishene without decreasing potency. Hurry it up to avoid degradation, that was all.

 

I look forward to hearing more about this for sure. I smoked hashish from Afghanistan, Lebanon, Morocco, India and Nepal for years before I tried flowers of any sort and the smell still puts a smile on my face.  If you find a way, I'll no doubt be giving it a go myself

Your test method seems sound, though if it occurs in hash through the rubbing and casual curing process, perhaps it wouldn't take as long as you anticipate?

 

That would be even better, having one control and two experiments. But when would you stop using the UV light? Blasting that for four-six weeks does not sound like a good idea, or maybe it is? But it's impossible to tell how much hashinene there is until after it's done pressing. Well, even than it's hard to tell. So you can't just smell the trichomes to determine when it's ready.

 

I already make good hash, but I would like to see if it's possible to improve it further.

 

Not sure if you have ever tried this method of heating and pressing, but here is a video showing how it's done. (I think youtube was fine as off-site linking?). There are more videos on his channel in english, but this one shows the product better going from trichomes to hash. I don't use a bottle though, instead I use a big pot. The weight of the pot does most of the job and keeps heat for much longer, than I roll out the hash using a roller. If you want to try this, please get real cellophane and not plastic, heating plastic is not good.

 

It's really an interesting process. At first it smells just like typical cannabis, but almost as soon as you start working it, the smell starts changing into hashinene.

 

 

Edited July 15, 2022 by Translator

[MidgeSmith]

Cheers.  I figured you'd be able to smell essentially as you went along if the smell was changing by rubbing some trichomes / buds. If that is not possible it is hard.  I don't think you'd need to expose them for anything like 4 weeks.  I figure when they dry in the sun, they're only going to be out there a week or two tops. I'm presuming that level of exposure - the same time as they are dried in the sun - is going to be the amount of time required to change the composition towards hashishene, however long that is.  Anyway, you're the expert.  I will tune back in later