Too Dry But The Tiny Twigs Were Still Bendy

[MidgeSmith]

Hi, a few weeks ago I finished a crop and for the first time I was able to use the tent I grew them in to dry them. I went with the old maxim that the time to jar was once tiny stems start to break and large stems are still bendy.  I should have used that in conjunction with testing the duds between my thumb and finger.

TL;DR During drying, my buds became too dry to cure, but the tiniest stems were still really bendy.  Why?

 

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I had my humidity sensor set to 60% and temperature to 22C and they dried nice and slow for 8 days. The tiny stems were still bendy and everything was fine.  Then next day while I was working, the weather spiked up to 23C outside and I got back home to check and the buds were super crispy, like on the verge of crumble to dust :/  The tiny stems were still bendy though.  The glorious, glorious smell of the buds which was developing nicely the day before though, had gone.

I trimmed and jarred that evening and left the buds with hygrometers in jars with my fingers crossed.  The RH started plummeting as soon as I sealed the jars, not ideal. The next day I checked and the RH in the jars was 46% maximum - fucked.  I wondered if I was tripping so I checked the smaller stems in each jar.  Still totally bendy.

I stuck Bovedas in each jar and got the RH up to 62%, then removed the Bovedas.  I went through the burping phase as if the buds weren't ruined.  Over the next few weeks the small stems eventually started to get dry enough to break and the buds were no longer dry as a bone, but of course, virtually no smell returned.

So, my question is... why did the tiny stems not get dry enough to go beyond the bendy stage, while the buds crapped out and went drier than a desert?

Thanks for any ideas.

Edited June 7, 2022 by MidgeSmith
clarity

[Tegridy Farms]

My take is that 22c is to hot and the buds dried out whilst still leaving moisture within the stems.

 

Aim for 16-18c for a nice slow dry.

[MidgeSmith]

Yes I agree.  I wasn't clear though, I missed out some info.  The extractor was set to take out air at 22C but the ambient with heating was keeping it at 18C as long as it was cooler than 18C.  The 22C extraction was in case it went out of range because of increasing ambient temperatures - as it did in the air on the last day.

 

Nevertheless, perhaps it was over 18C too often and I didn't notice or something.  It seemed fine and nearly ready, right up to that last day.  It was already smelling good, then over the next day... foof!  The last month has helped to improve the flavour and smoothness of the Sour Diesel Auto, which was the last harvested and was the least affected.

Cheers Tegridy

Edited June 7, 2022 by MidgeSmith

[Boojum]

3 hours ago, MidgeSmith said:

So, my question is... why did the tiny stems not get dry enough to go beyond the bendy stage, while the buds crapped out and went drier than a desert?

 

 

 

Cos the buds have far more surface area for the water to evaporate, whilke the moisture in the woody stems is kinda locked inside.

[Boojum]

It should even out once jarred.

 

E2A shut the fuck up Boojum, I really don't know what I'm talking about.

 

Apologies, drunk again

Edited June 8, 2022 by Boojum

[MidgeSmith]

8 hours ago, Boojum said:

It should even out once jarred.

 

E2A shut the fuck up Boojum, I really don't know what I'm talking about.

 

Apologies, drunk again

I mean  you are totally right about the rate, but hasn't the received wisdom about drying, that you dry the plants until the smallest stems start to snap rather than bend?

I'm just confused as to why in this case the buds dried out too far before the stems snapped.  I guess the answer is to go with your gut as I should and take them when they feel like they are done, even if the smaller stems are still dead bendy...

[DeltaMelter]

This doesn't make sense, if you were drying at 60% RH and then you jarred up at that RH then it should be about 60% RH in the jar. If it's 46% then your RH when drying was probably way below 50% which strips terps.

 

If your extraction ramped up to high speed when it was 23C then I'll bet it dropped the RH too and that's where you lost the terps. On top of that you jarred them too early and they were not quite dry which guarantees they will smell like hay/wet grass as the moisture in the stems moves into the buds after jarring.

 

So basically what @Tegridy Farms said

 

[MidgeSmith]

1 hour ago, DeltaMelter said:

This doesn't make sense, if you were drying at 60% RH and then you jarred up at that RH then it should be about 60% RH in the jar. If it's 46% then your RH when drying was probably way below 50% which strips terps.

 

If your extraction ramped up to high speed when it was 23C then I'll bet it dropped the RH too and that's where you lost the terps. On top of that you jarred them too early and they were not quite dry which guarantees they will smell like hay/wet grass as the moisture in the stems moves into the buds after jarring.

 

So basically what @Tegridy Farms said

 

 

I know, it doesn't make sense as presented.

 

I didn't jar them too early, they were already bone dry, I think you and Tegridy hit the nail on the head between you and I now understand it is how you say.  With the higher temperature having ramped the fan up, dropping the RH in the tent because the outside air was in the high 40s outside of the tent, they dried at high temperature and low RH in the last and most critical phase. When I came in to check and found them bone dry, I didn't check the tent hydrometer as they were bone dry, I went into emergency mode. It had been 60% the last time I checked.

 

Because of the increase surface area and last minute flash drying, the stems were still bendy because they hadn't had a steady dry for the 14 days I was on course for. Damn, I should have just hung them as I usually do, I'd have taken them at the right time checking manually.

 

SO... In order to increase the chances of my doing better in a drying tent next time ... Could you confirm that - in the absence of an AC unit - I should have ignored the temperature and gone by RH alone shouldn't I?

Thanks @DeltaMelter , @Tegridy Farms & @Boojum for solving it between yous.  It's the second time I have managed to totally frig up the dry at the last minute and hopefully the last for a long time... At least this time, there are some remaining terps, particularly on the sour diesel, just nothing like the tour de force I was inline to experience until that fateful day.
 

[DeltaMelter]

@MidgeSmith Yes I would say so - I have the same dilemma coming up in a few weeks as I need to harvest but its been 23C at lights out for the last few days and isn't getting any cooler.

 

I will rig up a humidifier though on an inkbird to keep the RH up so if it drops I can handle it. Not much I can do about temps as I'm not spending money on a/c.

 

It's crappy when this happens but to be honest I think you have to fuck up a couple of times to really get you focused and more prepared.

 

 

[MidgeSmith]

Just now, DeltaMelter said:

@MidgeSmith Yes I would say so - I have the same dilemma coming up in a few weeks as I need to harvest but its been 23C at lights out for the last few days and isn't getting any cooler.

 

I will rig up a humidifier though on an inkbird to keep the RH up so if it drops I can handle it. Not much I can do about temps as I'm not spending money on a/c.

 

It's crappy when this happens but to be honest I think you have to fuck up a couple of times to really get you focused and more prepared.

 

 

Yes. To be honest, if I had known how it would end up, I would have run the portable AC for a day or two, despite my reluctance. I thought I'd get away with it and didn't want the loud chugging noise form the AC unit in my shed, particularly with the nosey (but pleasant enough) neighbours out in their garden, next to my shed, enjoying the bloody sun!!

 

Were the buds particularly dense ones, I'd have probably got away with it better, but them's the breaks! Due to current energy costs, I am probably only going to be running during the Autumn / Winter seasons, so the problem shouldn't recur. Thanks for your advice though sir, I'd hit a mental block on it. I still feel like the smaller twigs should have snapped.

 

[BushDoctoR]

When it's warm I can never get the temp down, I just have to make do and work with what I have. Can still do a fair job of it if you're on the ball

 

If I know its going to be a warm dry I'll leave more fan leaves on, cram the buds in the drying net much closer together and transfer the buds to paper bag much quicker, possibly after just a few days if it's really hot. Forget waiting for stems to snap, it's too late by then.

 

I know it's far from the ideal cure that everyone raves about but half of this growing malarkey is working with the situations we're dealt and adapting as best we can!

 

As for your buds that are too dry, get some fresh plant material (alternatively some orange or apple peel) in with them for a couple of days and keep an eye on the rH when you remove it, you should be able to get it back up. It's not ideal and will certainly affect the smoke somewhat but it's not completely ruined

[MidgeSmith]

Thanks @BushDoctoR.

 

Yeah I totally agree.  To be honest, this is the first time I went by the snapping tiny twigs thing and the last.  Usually I take them slightly too moist, like 70% RH and work them down.  I haven't had mould in 25 years (heh heh - I had a hiatus of 20 years in between times when I grew, and only have a dozen grows under my belt ).  I wish I had stayed with my gut, but new system, so I thought I'd try.

The buds are ok, great strength but I am all about the smell and taste and it's only at 20% of what it should be, still as you say, live and learn, adapt and do your best.

I wish I'd taken them the night before and trim jailed through the night, but I had to be up for work, so chanced it.  If I had have taken the early hours shift I would be sitting on my best buds yet, but hey ho. I got them at 58 - 62% in jars the last few weeks.  Some of it is still curing a little bit, just 80% facked.

 

Thanks for the advice and pep-talk buddy

Edited June 8, 2022 by MidgeSmith

[mysticriver]

14 hours ago, BushDoctoR said:

If I know its going to be a warm dry I'll leave more fan leaves on, cram the buds in the drying net much closer together and transfer the buds to paper bag much quicker, possibly after just a few days if it's really hot. Forget waiting for stems to snap, it's too late by then.

 

bro could you just break this down for me a little - times; signs of when to do it etc

ive got some drying starting today

im always struggling with high temps/low r/h, ive even moved rooms this time where its slightly cooler/higher r/h

in the old room, I had snapping stems in 6 days, which you dont need me to point out it being too quick

I also ike that you mention the apple peel idea, wondered about that lately

 

 

mystic

[MidgeSmith]

7 hours ago, mysticriver said:

bro could you just break this down for me a little - times; signs of when to do it etc

ive got some drying starting today

im always struggling with high temps/low r/h, ive even moved rooms this time where its slightly cooler/higher r/h

in the old room, I had snapping stems in 6 days, which you dont need me to point out it being too quick

I also ike that you mention the apple peel idea, wondered about that lately

 

 

mystic

Just to +1 what BushDoctoR said, keeping a few of the fan leaves fresh / fridged / frozen while you are drying means you have some around in case you want to rehydrate without the worry about flavour loss that some have with Bovedas.  I tried that before and it worked a treat.

[mysticriver]

yeah suppose he says it all really, few days etc

 

 

mystic